033 Kennie Young: explanations, answering accusations & why some clubs could soon be using changing rooms

[Stag Nation]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

They should have taken complete responsibility and made the decision for the good of the game at this level. You can't form a leadership committee and then work via concensus. Leaders were voted in, not facilitators.

Remind us again, how did that work out for the Juniors?

[jimbaxters]

13 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Remind us again, how did that work out for the Juniors?

Moot point. This is a professional set up now. In fact it runs off the back of that title.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

They should have taken complete responsibility and made the decision for the good of the game at this level. You can't form a leadership committee and then work via concensus. Leaders were voted in, not facilitators. Every piece of correspondence which has emerged has felt like this.  If it's not "let the clubs decide" it's "that decision was down to the SFA".

There's basically been two things that have been down to the SFA. The original refusal of Tier 6 Conferences. Then the confirmation that the WoSFL can roll over the existing temporary league format to next season but not amend it by increasing the size of the WoS Premier.

The only real thing that came from the clubs was the start date of October 24th, the league names and what to do about 2021-22 originally.

It was the IMG that decided to have seeded Conferences and not regionalised. It was the IMG that delayed the proposed start date of 10th October. It was the IMG that decided to offer the withdrawal without penalty, which led to the negative reaction from the clubs over no promotion or relegation. It was the IMG that continued with seeded Conferences after the withdrawals. It was the IMG that offered the later withdrawal for clubs after the season started without penalty which has upset some clubs due to the unbalanced numbers in Conferences.

The IMG have made plenty of decisions.

[theesel1994]

9 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Moot point. This is a professional set up now. In fact it runs off the back of that title.

The Juniors are also classed as a professional set up and that's why they're allowed to play.

[ernest]

Well if they are that professional they should have a testing regime in place. They are professional in name but hardly professional in practice

The Juniors are also classed as a professional set up and that's why they're allowed to play.

[jimbaxters]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

The Juniors are also classed as a professional set up and that's why they're allowed to play.

Yes but the minute someone mentions the word Juniors in here they get shouted down...until comparing them and the WoSFL to put a positive glow on the latter.

[HibeeJibee]

Going by some comments here: you would think the West of Scotland League had struck out alone upon some unique or unorthodox path?

Literally every senior (and indeed junior) league is running; and just 2 clubs from 214 outwith WOSL have mothballed (Forres Mechanics + Bunillidh Thistle) and 0 have withdrawn so far.

If anything the outlier is why 16 from 67 mothballed and 3 withdrew in WOSL. Not why WOSL didn't cancel and compel all 67 to mothball.

[Andy groundhopper]

Everyone knows the risks, deaths, restrictions etc but I feel that it's been better for the season to have started - rather than stop from last March/April for twelve months.  Once this difficult year has passed, I think the move to a Senior, progressive set up , was a bold move to benefit everyone.

[jimbaxters]

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Going by some comments here: you would think the West of Scotland League had struck out alone upon some unique or unorthodox path?

Literally every senior (and indeed junior) league is running; and just 2 clubs from 214 outwith WOSL have mothballed (Forres Mechanics + Bunillidh Thistle) and 0 have withdrawn so far.

If anything the outlier is why 16 from 67 mothballed and 3 withdrew in WOSL. Not why WOSL didn't cancel and compel all 67 to mothball.

This is the WoSFL forum pal. That's why it's being spoken about.

[clash city rocker]

13 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

They should have taken complete responsibility and made the decision for the good of the game at this level. You can't form a leadership committee and then work via concensus. Leaders were voted in, not facilitators. Every piece of correspondence which has emerged has felt like this.  If it's not "let the clubs decide" it's "that decision was down to the SFA".

The way this year has gone it should have been a no-brainer to wait until fans were allowed to watch. To have 40 odd people travelling across the west of scotland (or beyond in the case of the SSC) is a folly. No matter how many clubs wanted to play.

There was a part of me that felt clubs should have been allowed to play if they wanted but the fact that the Glasgow region went into Level 4 restrictions and the committee still used the "professional" angle was an utter disgrace. Those in favour of playing can kid themselves on that the games being played have not contributed to any spread if they want but it's bound to have done.

"The clubs wanted it" is a cop out.

Aye correct. There is no difference between a group of untested players congregating on a fitba park than a group of untested supporters congregating on the sidelines. If one is not allowed neither should the other. Funny how it's professional but not when it comes to National Minimum wage. Players can drive from Glasgow to Darvel yet a life long supporter can't stroll Doon the brae to even watch the players in action from ootside the ground. Ludicrous.

Edited December 5, 2020 by clash city rocker

[FairWeatherFan]

16 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Going by some comments here: you would think the West of Scotland League had struck out alone upon some unique or unorthodox path?

Literally every senior (and indeed junior) league is running; and just 2 clubs from 214 outwith WOSL have mothballed (Forres Mechanics + Bunillidh Thistle) and 0 have withdrawn so far.

If anything the outlier is why 16 from 67 mothballed and 3 withdrew in WOSL. Not why WOSL didn't cancel and compel all 67 to mothball.

The Buckie Rovers committee was down to one and with the uncertainty over the season went into abeyance early. I think some of the other North Juniors are sitting out, or at least were intending to initiallly. Linlithgow Rose CFC have either folded or withdrawn.

Reason number one for why the WoSFL is a little different. The WoSFL put in a league format that allowed for a curtailed season rather than a late start. The NCL, Highland League, and North Juniors all changed their league format for the season to allow for a later start. The North Region even involving a regionalised format to limit travel. The East Region also held off on starting.

Reason number two, the WoSFL clubs were given a get out jail free card with no relegation for withdrawing. If the EoSFL had been offered the same deal heading into the season i'm sure there would have been withdrawals. The EoSFL clubs clearly have the same concerns as the WoSFL clubs otherwise they wouldn't have introduced the deadline for a midseason withdrawal.

[Andy groundhopper]

Think you were always going to have different reactions when relegation was cancelled - maybe ALL leagues should have had a blanket decision on relegation or not. Not fully up to date with every league, but are any promotions still going to take place - apart from into the spfl ?  Biggest sticking point was allowing clubs to return at the same level - makes the season ludicrous.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 05/12/2020 at 03:07, clash city rocker said:

Aye correct. There is no difference between a group of untested players congregating on a fitba park than a group of untested supporters congregating on the sidelines. If one is not allowed neither should the other. Funny how it's professional but not when it comes to National Minimum wage. Players can drive from Glasgow to Darvel yet a life long supporter can't stroll Doon the brae to even watch the players in action from ootside the ground. Ludicrous.

I think you just called it yourself.
Yes I believe you are correct in some ways but difference is. Each person of  team in the WOS is checked for temperature and all contact details are held. Each home team does this, (they check both home and away players and officials). They wont hold the contact numbers of the away players but will have the Covid officer of the away clubs hold the contact numbers which the Covid officer in turn can then supply numbers if there is  a positive case.  So that means they are in a bubble of some sort.

Any fan going to watch a game outside a park, is not temperature checked, is not known and no contact details listed so if he stands beside another fan or neutral they can infect each other with no way of tracing them.

I was at a game recently and on the outside fence there were 15 people watching, 10 of them standing together, side by side.  One official went out to ask them to leave and was told to (feck off). If one of those 15 fans or neutrals watching has Covid then a good chance some or most of the 15 watching fans will contract it and spread it. There is no control on this so this is why all fans are told to stay away until some control package / criteria can be announced.

 

Should football been cancelled this season at these levels, there's a lot of merit for a yes and lot of merit for a no.
Should the government have opened the pubs and universities like they did a few months back, there's merit for a yes and merit for a no.

in the months since march or even before, this pandemic is new to every single person living on this world and we are all trying to adapt and deal with it, as in individuals, families, friends, governments, countries and no one has the best solution yet

Edited December 6, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Bestsinceslicebread]

20 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Think you were always going to have different reactions when relegation was cancelled - maybe ALL leagues should have had a blanket decision on relegation or not. Not fully up to date with every league, but are any promotions still going to take place - apart from into the spfl ?  Biggest sticking point was allowing clubs to return at the same level - makes the season ludicrous.

Ill disagree.
The reason, no one can predict how this season was going to go with clubs missing players, not having enough players to fulfill games due to Covid isolation etc...
The Lowland league and WOS want all clubs to flourish and do not want any of them to fold so this is why the reason was given to all clubs and also why they would be allowed back in the following season at the same level as this season.  They allowed possible promotion out of the WOS via the play off if licensed to keep the pyramid active, which I believe was sanctioned by the SFA or the SFA would have bene made aware of the decision..

 The only thing I'm unsure of and haven't asked, Will the 3 conference leagues be the same teams in each conference or will they be mixed again

Edited December 6, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[FairWeatherFan]

 

 

51 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

The only thing I'm unsure of and haven't asked, Will the 3 conference leagues be the same teams in each conference or will they be mixed again

I think they're meant to be the same. Im more curious to see if there are clubs like St Cadocs, Drumchapel out there. Clubs that might look to apply now that there are vaccines getting rolled out. 

[ernest]

Is football and going to the pub more important than an education that sets you up for life. I would say there is a lot of merit for no never mind yes

I think you just called it yourself.
Yes I believe you are correct in some ways but difference is. Each person of  team in the WOS is checked for temperature and all contact details are held. Each home team does this, (they check both home and away players and officials). They wont hold the contact numbers of the away players but will have the Covid officer of the away clubs hold the contact numbers which the Covid officer in turn can then supply numbers if there is  a positive case.  So that means they are in a bubble of some sort.

Any fan going to watch a game outside a park, is not temperature checked, is not known and no contact details listed so if he stands beside another fan or neutral they can infect each other with no way of tracing them.
I was at a game recently and on the outside fence there were 15 people watching, 10 of them standing together, side by side.  One official went out to ask them to leave and was told to (feck off). If one of those 15 fans or neutrals watching has Covid then a good chance some or most of the 15 watching fans will contract it and spread it. There is no control on this so this is why all fans are told to stay away until some control package / criteria can be announced.
 
Should football been cancelled this season at these levels, there's a lot of merit for a yes and lot of merit for a no.
Should the government have opened the pubs and universities like they did a few months back, there's merit for a yes and merit for a no.

in the months since march or even before, this pandemic is new to every single person living on this world and we are all trying to adapt and deal with it, as in individuals, families, friends, governments, countries and no one has the best solution yet

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 hours ago, ernest said:

Is football and going to the pub more important than an education that sets you up for life. I would say there is a lot of merit for no never mind yes

Honestly what are you on, the way you are going on in posts all I can say is that its best for you to read a post and re-read it again just to make sure you understand what they are meaning.
Your comment has absolute nothing to do with the post I posted, absolute nothing, and is not related to what I posted
I have read posts and read some wrong in the past or not understood it in the way it was intended, so please understand why I am putting you  right
Don't take offence but I read your recent posts and think to myself either something is up with this guy or he's at the windup

The meaning of the pubs is meant that when the government allowed pubs and universities to go back a few months ago and then guess what, that's when the R rate rose again and more infections happened and were announced and the reason for this was that the government tried to have the balance of fighting the virus and keeping the economy going but obviously you haven't worked that out..  The government let universities go back and allowed pubs to open at the same time to keep the economy going, ( nothing more nothing less ) and then the virus rose with more people being infected.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[clash city rocker]

On 06/12/2020 at 13:55, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I think you just called it yourself.
Yes I believe you are correct in some ways but difference is. Each person of  team in the WOS is checked for temperature and all contact details are held. Each home team does this, (they check both home and away players and officials). They wont hold the contact numbers of the away players but will have the Covid officer of the away clubs hold the contact numbers which the Covid officer in turn can then supply numbers if there is  a positive case.  So that means they are in a bubble of some sort.

Any fan going to watch a game outside a park, is not temperature checked, is not known and no contact details listed so if he stands beside another fan or neutral they can infect each other with no way of tracing them.

I was at a game recently and on the outside fence there were 15 people watching, 10 of them standing together, side by side.  One official went out to ask them to leave and was told to (feck off). If one of those 15 fans or neutrals watching has Covid then a good chance some or most of the 15 watching fans will contract it and spread it. There is no control on this so this is why all fans are told to stay away until some control package / criteria can be announced.

 

Should football been cancelled this season at these levels, there's a lot of merit for a yes and lot of merit for a no.
Should the government have opened the pubs and universities like they did a few months back, there's merit for a yes and merit for a no.

in the months since march or even before, this pandemic is new to every single person living on this world and we are all trying to adapt and deal with it, as in individuals, families, friends, governments, countries and no one has the best solution yet

Aye ok yet a supporter who may well have had a test himself and come back negative still can't attend. If players are not taking wages they are basically amateur at the moment and amateur is banned. Anyway all the best.

[Andy groundhopper]

Just out of interest, watched the Weymouth v Halifax game on TV, and highlights of other National League games : some 600+ fans in attendance, very few masks and even less distancing. Saw another fan shouting away at the Spurs game, again no mask, and stewards doing nothing. Shows the stupidity of some fans and sadly, we're all tarred with same brush. BCD means....

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 07/12/2020 at 15:12, clash city rocker said:

Aye ok yet a supporter who may well have had a test himself and come back negative still can't attend. If players are not taking wages they are basically amateur at the moment and amateur is banned. Anyway all the best.

Again, supporter is not traced
Supporters are not allowed in to stands by the government, and even when fans will be allowed in, I suspect each club would have to submit a blueprint of working methodology of how to keep fans socially distanced within the club grounds, supporter track and trace. and how workings of half time and refreshment areas, toilet facilities are worked etc... and thats only samples of workings to organize. The same goes for the junior teams left in the East West Lothian leagues.
Only now are WOS clubs submitting their blueprint for the use of their dressing rooms, so each submission form each club will be scrutinized individually

if players are not taking wages they are basically amateurs and amateurs are banned.  Wonder if that happened or would happen to Queens Park in the pyramid.
The teams in the WOS are in the Scottish Senior Pyramid system so that's why those teams who have arranged with their players that no payments are made can still play football

Edited December 8, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread