Local team / glory hunting, etc. and so on

[Green Day]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

There's also no doubt that this effect works on a smaller scale - I gave the example (somewhat glibly) in the other thread about Edinburgers following Hibs and Hearts when Edinburgh City were right there on their doorstep

It was more than glib. 

Edinburgh City who were lowland league until about 2016 or something - until their recent renaissance the "City Club" as it was known was basically a drinking club on Elm Row............until someone paid the club a shitload of cash for the building iirc?

Back on topic, as @Monkey Tenniscorrectly notes above - this is a hell of a lot simpler than many would (prefer to) think.

I used to work alongside a lot of Celtic and Rangers "supporters" most of whom couldnt find their way to the grounds with a sat nav.

I have respect for anyone supporting a wee club from a small town with very fucking long !! odds on winning anything.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Green Day

[MS RR]

42 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The dads shouldn't encourage their kids to support a side not local to them in my view.  The first ever match I attended was between Queens and my dad's team - Dundee.  I was supporting Queens as a seven year old because they were my local team. 

By the time I was having kids, I was back in Dumfries, so the one into football is a Queens fan.  If I lived elsewhere though, I'd encourage him to support the side local to him.

I think what your argument also ignores is that this success and coverage lark, is seductive enough to survive any Glasgow diaspora.  The fact that so many dads wish to pass on that support has an awful or to do with "glory" too.

Exactly, we can listen to how these fans argue that their fathers are from Glasgow and therefore have a legitimate reason to support one of the old firm. But lets face it, if their fathers were from Perth or Dingwall do you think they'd support St Johnston and Ross County if they grow up in Livingston? I seriously doubt it. 

[Trackdaybob]

6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

More than the extra ones you already have?

[G51]

12 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I actually think it's quite a bit less complicated than you suggest.

The vast majority of OF fans from outwith Glasgow, do live relatively close to other league teams.  For those who don't, the fact that so many happen to pick one of the two clubs that have shared the title for the last three and a half decades, does point to 'glory hunting' as a pretty incontestible feature.

If you're into football, it makes a lot of sense to follow the team you'll be able to watch with ease from a young age.  A local one fits that bill.

Part of what annoys diddy fans is that the 'success' enjoyed by OF ones looks unearned and sort of insincere.  That might sound silly, but it's true.  You're not guilty of it, but OF fans often accuse us of jealousy, which is absurd because if we wanted to support an OF side, we would.  It's not difficult.

As I alluded to when I first posted on this months ago, part of the reason so many who don't live close to a league team pick the OF is because of the glory, no doubt. But also, part of the reason is because, certainly before broadband became widely available, it's much easier for these people to follow the Old FIrm because they're on the TV every other week and you can watch them. For them, professional football often is a TV sport. That's just how it is when you live in a rural part of the world. Is it sad? Sure. But it's life - there are ups and downs to everything.

Another thing that I wish I'd remembered to put in my big long post is that some people make the argument that if you have a child, and the team you support is no longer your local team, then you should bring up that child to support the local team instead. I understand that argument, and on the face of it, it's logical. But you also have to factor in what you use your fandom for.

For me, a big part of supporting Rangers is that it's part of the bond between me and my dad. When I give him a call every weekend, we spend an hour talking about how good Morelos was, or where we still need a new signing or two, or whatever happened in the game that weekend. It's a shared interest, and if we didn't have that, I might not be as close to him as I am. We don't have that many other interests in common.

Like I said earlier - it's complex. One of the reasons dads get their sons into football is to spend time with them. Does that reason for making your son support the same team as you supersede the need to support the local team in your community? I can't answer that - I think it's one of those things where you have to make your own judgement call. And there isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Green Day said:

It was more than glib. 

Edinburgh City who were lowland league until about 2016 or something - until their recent "renaissance" the "City Club" as it was known was basically a drinking club on Elm Row............until someone paid the club a shitload of cash for the building?

As @Monkey Tenniscorrectly notes above - this is a hell of a lot simpler than many would (prefer to) think.

I used to work alongside a lot of Celtic and Rangers "supporters" most of whom couldnt find their way to the grounds with a sat nav.

I have respect for anyone supporting a wee club from a small town with short odds on winning anything.

Nice tagging.

I wish the odds on my side winning anything were indeed short.

[Green Day]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Nice tagging.

I wish the odds on my side winning anything were indeed short.

Jeez, sometimes I out "stupid" myself 

Will go back and edit.........

[G51]

8 minutes ago, Green Day said:

It was more than glib. 

Edinburgh City who were lowland league until about 2016 or something - until their recent renaissance the "City Club" as it was known was basically a drinking club on Elm Row............until someone paid the club a shitload of cash for the building iirc?

I thought it was pretty clearly taking the piss tbh. I'm not seriously suggesting that people in Edinburgh support Hibernian FC for the glory...

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, G51 said:

As I alluded to when I first posted on this months ago, part of the reason so many who don't live close to a league team pick the OF is because of the glory, no doubt. But also, part of the reason is because, certainly before broadband became widely available, it's much easier for these people to follow the Old FIrm because they're on the TV every other week and you can watch them. For them, professional football often is a TV sport. That's just how it is when you live in a rural part of the world. Is it sad? Sure. But it's life - there are ups and downs to everything.

Another thing that I wish I'd remembered to put in my big long post is that some people make the argument that if you have a child, and the team you support is no longer your local team, then you should bring up that child to support the local team instead. I understand that argument, and on the face of it, it's logical. But you also have to factor in what you use your fandom for.

For me, a big part of supporting Rangers is that it's part of the bond between me and my dad. When I give him a call every weekend, we spend an hour talking about how good Morelos was, or where we still need a new signing or two, or whatever happened in the game that weekend. It's a shared interest, and if we didn't have that, I might not be as close to him as I am. We don't have that many other interests in common.

Like I said earlier - it's complex. One of the reasons dads get their sons into football is to spend time with them. Does that reason for making your son support the same team as you supersede the need to support the local team in your community? I can't answer that - I think it's one of those things where you have to make your own judgement call. And there isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer.

Football is indeed massive in lots of father/son relationships.  It's important to mine in both directions.  I don't think supporting the same team is a necessary component of that though.

[Green Day]

3 minutes ago, G51 said:

I thought it was pretty clearly taking the piss tbh. I'm not seriously suggesting that people in Edinburgh support Hibernian FC for the glory...

You set them up................

 

[AJF]

13 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

In Perth the people who support the old firm do so 100% for bigoted reasons. A bit like 100% from everywhere else I'd imagine. Stupid c***s should just f**k off back to Ireland/Holland/Buckingham palace/ the days of yore or wherever will take them the inbred c***s.

This is the type of statement that is either ridiculously naive or an attempt at trolling because nobody can be that stupid to believe it’s true.

[G51]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Football is indeed massive in lots of father/son relationships.  It's important to mine in both directions.  I don't think supporting the same team is a necessary component of that though.

Maybe it isn't necessary. I can't really say, because I've only got my own experience to relate to.

[G51]

5 minutes ago, Green Day said:

You set them up................

 

Glad I didn't have a P&B account back then, because I was absolutely seething that day.

[Green Day]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

I’ve said this before but when I first took an interest in football I had no idea how close Glasgow was to my home compared to Hibs/Hearts/Falkirk etc.

You mean - say - Tynecastle at 14 miles from Almondvale, versus Ibrox at 34 miles?

Even if you meant the outskirts (Baillieston for example) thats 25 miles.................

Stellar argument 

[AJF]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The dads shouldn't encourage their kids to support a side not local to them in my view.  The first ever match I attended was between Queens and my dad's team - Dundee.  I was supporting Queens as a six year old because they were my local team. 

By the time I was having kids, I was back in Dumfries, so the one into football is a Queens fan.  If I lived elsewhere though, I'd encourage him to support the side local to him.

I think what your argument also ignores is that this success and coverage lark, is seductive enough to survive any Glasgow diaspora.  The fact that so many dads wish to pass on that support has an awful lot to do with "glory" too.

That’s your view and I’ll respect it, but I don’t wholly agree with it.

As has already been pointed out, taking your kids to the football is quite an important thing in people’s lives and it sounds like it is to you too. But generally that’s easiest when both the parent and child support the same team. I don’t think my parent or anyone else’s parent should be judged for wanting to take their child to watch the same team they support.

40 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

The big question is whether or not you should at least give your local team support regardless of where you may have moved to.  For some people it is mind blowing that you can lend your support to two (or more) teams, even when there's a sacrosanct loyalty pecking order involved. 

For example, I would frequently go to Pittodrie when I lived in Aberdeen city centre for ~10 years, at least when there were midweek games that didn't get in the way of other loyalties.  However, some folk would just feel guilty about doing the same as if it's a crime to enter any other ground if their own team isn't playing.  To quote a former neighbour of mine who I once asked why they don't head down to Glebe Park for the occasion: "ach, I'm a Celtic man, I can't do that".   

FWIW, I left Brechin when I was just 4, but some poor **** has to support them. 

This is a good point to raise to be fair. While I’ve always been a Rangers fan, my dad actually bought us a couple of season books for Livingston when I was younger. It lasted for a season but we would generally watch Rangers and buy tickets individually but then use our Livingston season books on days Rangers weren’t playing.

I’ve since been to a handful of Livingston games since but not very many since getting my own season book at Rangers when I was 16.

Edited December 2, 2020 by AJF

[AJF]

4 minutes ago, Green Day said:

You mean - say - Tynecastle at 14 miles from Almondvale, versus Ibrox at 34 miles?

Even if you meant the outskirts (Baillieston for example) thats 25 miles.................

Stellar argument 

You’ve misunderstood what I meant. As a 5/6 year old Rangers supporter, I had no idea about geography and how far away places were. All I knew was if we went to the football at Ibrox, we’d go in the car. If we went into Edinburgh for a day out, we’d take the train. I never had a clue how far away each of them were though.

Maybe it’s just me being a thick child but at that age I never had a clue about the geography of Scotland.

Edited December 2, 2020 by AJF

[MS RR]

6 minutes ago, AJF said:

This is the type of statement that is either ridiculously naive or an attempt at trolling because nobody can be that stupid to believe it’s true.

Well tbf to him the Irish flags and union jacks have no place in Scottish football and is actually the main issue I have with the old firm. The political standpoints of both clubs make them so unappealing for anyone with half a brain and any sort of class. For instance, it's absolutely disgraceful that Celtic don't have the poppy on the kit during remembrance. 

[AJF]

1 minute ago, MS RR said:

Well tbf to him the Irish flags and union jacks have no place in Scottish football and is actually the main issue I have with the old firm. The political standpoints of both clubs make them so unappealing for anyone with half a brain and any sort of class. For instance, it's absolutely disgraceful that Celtic don't have the poppy on the kit during remembrance. 

The political standpoints of any given club is probably a step too far in terms of this debate, I was merely responding to the claim that 100% of Old Firm supporters out with Glasgow support them for bigoted reasons which is, quite simply, ludicrous.

[ewan14]

16 minutes ago, Green Day said:

You set them up................

 

Persevere

[ewan14]

Pretty impressive this thread is " hotter " than the let's laugh at Celtic " thread ( or the still to come '' Dave King ... )

[AJF]

1 minute ago, ewan14 said:

Pretty impressive this thread is " hotter " than the let's laugh at Celtic " thread ( or the still to come '' Dave King ... )

The resident P&B Celtic fans can’t believe their luck. They’re getting off very lightly here!