St Johnstone vs Hamilton 30/12

[Kyle]

7 minutes ago, Radford said:

Thought McCann was very good today and on Saturday, with the safety net of Craig behind him. 

Think they caught us cold with their shape and fashioned the early great chance then really just had one other opportunity when we fucked up our own corner and Thomas broke. 

Craig picked up a lot of what was loose and restricted them whilst McCann could really commit to winning the ball and was involved in our attacking play meaning there wasn't an over-reliance out wide. 

I think some of you guys are seeing the same game over and over because it is "St Johnstone nil" when actually the manager is making tweaks.

There has been times he's changed to a back four when chasing a game but I don't think it's ever really worked. Wouldn't have been against it today though and it's a fair question to ask about our approach. But I don't think it wouldn't have been a massive solve-all.

What tweaks are those? The fact that Liam is more effective defensively than Bryson and Davidson isn't really a bully for the manager, more for Liam Craig. Davidson is another one I feel doesn't suit the shape, and Bryson looks more exposed than anyone when an opposition players get in behind the midfield. The back 8 is always set up in exactly the same way. Wotherspoon's role sometimes changes, May's role sometimes changes but essentially every home game is a rerun of what has gone before, and we inevitably have the same discussion after each one. Davidson is very lucky the crowds aren't in at the moment because he'd not be having such an easy time if they were. 

 

 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

I've probably moaned about this after every game tbh but... Can we forget formation etc for a second though.

The misses... Why are we consistently so poor (pathetic) in front of goal? It's becoming a bit ridiculous...

[Jamie_B]

I absolutely agree there’s a good argument for making structural changes to the tram, but fundamentally if we had showed one iota of composure in front of goal this season we’d be sitting way up the table not even thinking about a relegation battle. That’s on the players, not the formation or tactics.

Eg say May gets a touch on that header first half today and MOH puts his away. Even if we concede all the shit goals we have this season but scored, for the sake of argument, two at home to County in the game we absolutely dominated and missed a host of chances, and one at Motherwell where we lost 1-0 to an early goal.

We’d still be underscoring, we’d still be giving away shit goals far too often, but we’d be in a far more comfortable position. Those games were pretty much all lost/drawn on garbage finishing above all else.

Davidson has to do better in terms of the timing and substance of the substitutions he makes, but he can’t be held responsible for the number of absolute sitters we’ve passed up this year.

[Broon_100]

One of the things that's been bugging me all season is the number of times we get into a great position in the wide areas and we have absolutely nobody or just Kane in the box. Now unless you're Bayern Munich you're going to struggle to convert from there. Are the players scared to commit and overload the box because the shape means we are so vulnerable to the counter attack?  The Hamilton game earlier in the season was the only game we overloaded the box (and scored 5) and it ended up a hockey score. Has Davidson seen that and told them to be more conservative? It's bizarre we can't get a balance.

 

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

I absolutely agree there’s a good argument for making structural changes to the tram, but fundamentally if we had showed one iota of composure in front of goal this season we’d be sitting way up the table not even thinking about a relegation battle. That’s on the players, not the formation or tactics.

Eg say May gets a touch on that header first half today and MOH puts his away. Even if we concede all the shit goals we have this season but scored, for the sake of argument, two at home to County in the game we absolutely dominated and missed a host of chances, and one at Motherwell where we lost 1-0 to an early goal.

We’d still be underscoring, we’d still be giving away shit goals far too often, but we’d be in a far more comfortable position. Those games were pretty much all lost/drawn on garbage finishing above all else.

Davidson has to do better in terms of the timing and substance of the substitutions he makes, but he can’t be held responsible for the number of absolute sitters we’ve passed up this year.

Every attacking player, aside from Kane, is getting less shots than last season, and also has a lower xG per 90. Kane has consistently been one of the worst strikers every season, in front of goal, in the top flight from 2015 onwards.

The rest are getting less chances, but also worse chances, aside from May whos numbers are buffed by penalties.

They're missing chances, but at the same time, if they're only getting one decent chance a match its unlikely they'll score regularly. Most games you're looking at half chances off crosses etc., and hoping they can bag them regularly.

[Broon_100]

Whilst Kane deserves criticism for his goalscoring it's only fair to call out how improved his link play is. You can see the McLean coaching influence. He just needs to add goals (like the rest of the team).

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Broon_100 said:

Whilst Kane deserves criticism for his goalscoring it's only fair to call out how improved his link play is. You can see the McLean coaching influence. He just needs to add goals (like the rest of the team).

In terms of per90 figures, hes set up less shots this season than last, his xA is half as high, and he has 0 actual assists.

Before tonight he hadn't completed a single pass into the penalty box.

[akuram]

I think that he has had enough time to sort our non scoring problems. Thank goodness we are not allowed in as four goals till now would have been dismal sitting in the cold.
Change the manager NOW before it’s too late.

[Valentino Bolognese]

6 minutes ago, Broon_100 said:

Whilst Kane deserves criticism for his goalscoring it's only fair to call out how improved his link play is. You can see the McLean coaching influence. He just needs to add goals (like the rest of the team).

I agree. What we now have are two forwards who are good at holding up the ball, playing neat links and defending from the front.  

Why do we need two?

It's interesting reading the various opinions on the manager and how much blame lies at his door. I have some sympathy with the 'players have let him down' argument and that's true. But, the buck stops with him. As of now I want to see;

- the willingness to change shape to suit the requirements of the game

- some fire and passion on camera to reassure that he can motivate a dressing room

- substitutions at a time that will actually impact the direction of a game

- recruitment in January that recognises our problems, which to me is penalty box finisher first and foremost

 

[Kyle]

Davidson is responsible for seeing how a game is developing and making changes within a game, or seeing that things aren't working (4 goals in 12 games and not changing the fundamental shape at the start of a game is wild) and making the relevant changes. Of the attack players that we have or have had this season, he signed Conway, Melamed and Tanto, he extended the contract of Kane and he knows May, MOH and Wotherspoon very well from his first spell at the club. Hendry has struggled more than anyone despite looking like he'd earn us good money last year.

I feel like I'm slamming my head against a brick wall here, but if we lose on Saturday we'll likely be in a relegation play off spot as County will be above us and something has to give between our fellow diddies Hamilton and Motherwell. I keep hearing about how we've played well this season too. If playing well takes us to 11th after 22 matches, what do we all think will happen if we start playing poorly?

I'll shut up now.

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

penalty box finisher first and foremost

 

Thats May.

Hes not scored a league goal from over 12 yards out since 2016.

Only one goal from a position wider than the 6 yard box, and that was marginal.

Utterly baffles me why hes so involved outside the box.

Edited December 30, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Thats May.

Hes not scored a league goal from over 12 yards out since 2016.

Only one goal from a position wider than a post, and that was marginal.

Utterly baffles me why hes so involved outside the box.

I think as other folk have said though. 2 consecutive managers (and him himself in interview) have spoken about getting into the box more for over a year, but it's not really happening. 

 

[Costanza]

Can't wait for the need to get one out to get one in transfer chat to start. Will give us all a boost.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

I think as other folk have said though. 2 consecutive managers (and him himself in interview) have spoken about getting into the box more for over a year, but it's not really happening. 

It was beginning too last season, and at the start of this season. He was getting goals despite barely being involved in the build up.

Somethings changed over the past few months and hes suddenly become obsessed with picking the ball up deep and expecting to link play and score. Trying efforts in that "inside left" zone where he bagged goals in 13/14, despite him not being that player anymore.

[Jamie_B]

I absolutely agree that the simplest thing we could do to improve things right now is tell May that his position is between the posts and that if he touches the ball 40 yards out on the touch line his hair is being set on fire.

[derek_holmes]

57 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

They're missing chances, but at the same time, if they're only getting one decent chance a match its unlikely they'll score regularly. Most games you're looking at half chances off crosses etc., and hoping they can bag them regularly.

I think the word sitter is misused, and the difficulty of certain headed chances underestimated. That's not to say we aren't missing good chances (eg today), but equally our main attacking approaches (crosses from deep, shots from outside the box, attempted passes through crowds of defenders) are pretty low-percentage. It isn't really a surprise if we often struggle to convert.

Get May in the box again. 

[PauloPerth]

May does that in games where he's not getting any joy centrally, he drifts wide to get more space and see more of the ball.  I think that's possibly why he got subbed today.

May and Wotherspoon have had little impact for several games now. Not singling them out as they've been our biggest attacking threats this season, but if it was last season they'd likely have been on the bench today.  Spoony particularly has always gone through phases of playing well for a few games then goes off the boil, he gets dropped and makes an impact from the bench a few games later and forces his way back into the side.  It's how you keep players performing, knowing that if they don't then they'll be dropped.

Except this season you look round and there's no one to replace them with.  We have tried this season to run with a minimal squad, and you can completetely understand the thinking with the loss of income due to covid.  But it's clear now that without 3-4 additions to the first team squad we stand a very good chance of being relegated.

The chairman and manager have to be aware of that, and appreciate that the costs of not spending in January could be huge come the end of the season.

[RandomGuy.]

19 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

I absolutely agree that the simplest thing we could do to improve things right now is tell May that his position is between the posts and that if he touches the ball 40 yards out on the touch line his hair is being set on fire.

It honestly baffles me, and presumably nobody is telling him hes absolutely hopeless at long range efforts.

They have their place but if you're trying them constantly, yet haven't scored one in 4 years, you should probably take the hint.

Kane and Hendry also get their goals in these positions.

Almost like playing wide players and keeping your strikers near the goal would be a good idea with our squad. 

8 minutes ago, derek_holmes said:

I think the word sitter is misused, and the difficulty of certain headed chances underestimated. That's not to say we aren't missing good chances (eg today), but equally our main attacking approaches (crosses from deep, shots from outside the box, attempted passes through crowds of defenders) are pretty low-percentage. It isn't really a surprise if we often struggle to convert.

Get May in the box again. 

Pretty much this. Hes our best striker and best finisher, that should supersede the facts hes also our best striker on the ball.

Goals win matches.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Really struggling with the whole May deep thing. 

While he does alright is still not playing to his strengths nor do I understand the logic in it. 

We don't need an extra man in midfield nor is it to pull defenders out of position to make space for midfield runners going beyond the front men. 

If you're paying the 2 in a 3-5-2, get the two down the middle, fine to link play as we counter attack or move down the park but once we get into the final third get down the middle on a defenders shoulder for the ball flashing across the goal etc. Kane did exactly that against both Celtic and resulted in him getting the goal. To often today we had pitiful bodies in the box - surely that's the number one thing you need to do it your planning on sticking crosses into the box, actually have players in there?

Edited December 30, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, PauloPerth said:

May does that in games where he's not getting any joy centrally, he drifts wide to get more space and see more of the ball.  I think that's possibly why he got subbed today.

May and Wotherspoon have had little impact for several games now. Not singling them out as they've been our biggest attacking threats this season, but if it was last season they'd likely have been on the bench today.  Spoony particularly has always gone through phases of playing well for a few games then goes off the boil, he gets dropped and makes an impact from the bench a few games later and forces his way back into the side.  It's how you keep players performing, knowing that if they don't then they'll be dropped.

Except this season you look round and there's no one to replace them with.  We have tried this season to run with a minimal squad, and you can completetely understand the thinking with the loss of income due to covid.  But it's clear now that without 3-4 additions to the first team squad we stand a very good chance of being relegated.

The chairman and manager have to be aware of that, and appreciate that the costs of not spending in January could be huge come the end of the season.

Wotherspoon played in CM today, he could easily have been dropped for one of Davidson or Bryson. If we play wingers Conway (who creates the most chances in our squad), or MOH (player who created the best chances last season despite being poor) are options.