Arch Stanton Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 51 minutes ago, MacDuffman said: He apparently incriminated himself in a previous trial but was told by the prosecutor that he wouldn't be charged for some reason. The reason was the deal he made was that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he agreed to go to trial for any civil cases that arose. In other words, no criminal trials and no time in jail but using his enormous wealth to pay any damages he faced from being guilty in civil cases. The US legal system is a sham. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybhoy Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said: The reason was the deal he made was that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he agreed to go to trial for any civil cases that arose. In other words, no criminal trials and no time in jail but using his enormous wealth to pay any damages he faced from being guilty in civil cases. The US legal system is a sham. I agree, the US legal (and penal) system is an archaic mess. Just like it’s political system and constitution. The place is pretty much an embarrassment in an enlightened world. But I don’t remember people complaining about the legal system when he was convicted and sent down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Thorongil said: But I don’t remember people complaining about the legal system when he was convicted and sent down. That's because he was guilty!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 32 minutes ago, Flybhoy said: I take it he didn't update it with the picture of his arsehole looking like a yawning donkey? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I know this is from his last trial, but it's clear to see Cosby gave no fucks: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thorongil said: I agree, the US legal (and penal) system is an archaic mess. Just like it’s political system and constitution. The place is pretty much an embarrassment in an enlightened world. But I don’t remember people complaining about the legal system when he was convicted and sent down. Like any imperfect system, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Why would anyone complain when they think they got it right? Edited July 1, 2021 by welshbairn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Like any imperfect system, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Why would anyone complain when they think they got it right? The man or woman in the street cannot possibly know in any case whether the justice system got a case right. Their only information if from the media and their opinions are pointless. I would give weight to the view of someone of fair mind and trained mind who had seen and carefully weighed all the evidence and applied the legal principles. Largely the only people who can be trusted in that regard are judges as this is their entire role and purpose. Even a jury is problematic IMO, because many jurors are morons not able to apply the law, suspend their prejudices or weight evidence. Even judges can get things wrong, and this is why appeals outcomes must be respected and why there should never be capital punishment no matter the circumstances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Thorongil said: The man or woman in the street cannot possibly know in any case whether the justice system got a case right. Their only information if from the media and their opinions are pointless. I would give weight to the view of someone of fair mind and trained mind who had seen and carefully weighed all the evidence and applied the legal principles. Largely the only people who can be trusted in that regard are judges as this is their entire role and purpose. Even a jury is problematic IMO, because many jurors are morons not able to apply the law, suspend their prejudices or weight evidence. Even judges can get things wrong, and this is why appeals outcomes must be respected and why there should never be capital punishment no matter the circumstances. Would you not agree that when a system you agree is faulty decides on an outcome that appears to you to be morally unjust, it's ok to say so? Edited July 1, 2021 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I've written similar before, I accept it's not the US system........I reported a crime. A violent violating one....... I had my original statement taken by local DC/DS and then handed over to the specialist team. They visited on at least half dozen times and they went through that statement with a fine tooth comb. There were things I couldn't remember. Each time retraumatising. So I find the idea of 60 woman being able to maintain a made up story unlikely. They can very quickly spot flaws in your story or if your narrative is too perfect. What is clear whether it's the US or the UK the rate of successful prosecutions are miniscule. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, RH33 said: I've written similar before, I accept it's not the US system........I reported a crime. A violent violating one....... I had my original statement taken by local DC/DS and then handed over to the specialist team. They visited on at least half dozen times and they went through that statement with a fine tooth comb. There were things I couldn't remember. Each time retraumatising. So I find the idea of 60 woman being able to maintain a made up story unlikely. They can very quickly spot flaws in your story or if your narrative is too perfect. What is clear whether it's the US or the UK the rate of successful prosecutions are miniscule. Violence towards women doesn’t seem to be taken seriously. Just look at the incidence of domestic abuse reported by the partners of policemen and the lack of prosecutions and it’s probably no wonder crimes such as the one you suffered are not dealt with properly. We see guys like Colin Hendry interviewed about the Euros like he’s some great guy when he’s a persistent wife beater and violent stalker. At Dunfermline, Martin Hardie is treated as a hero yet he’s another inadequate who harasses women. A male-dominated culture just doesn’t seem to grasp the trauma their behaviour can cause women. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 16 hours ago, diegomarahenry said: They need the evidence to be bulletproof, in Cosbys case, he was found guilty... That's enough for me to believe the evidence must have been overwhelming - the low successful prosecution rate for such crimes would suggest it must've been. To labour a point, he was released on a technicality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Thorongil said: I agree, the US legal (and penal) system is an archaic mess. Just like it’s political system and constitution. The place is pretty much an embarrassment in an enlightened world. But I don’t remember people complaining about the legal system when he was convicted and sent down. The Yanks should just ask P&B whether people are guilty or not guilty and also get their constitution sorted out on here. (Some of us think) we have all the correct answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 47 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: The Yanks should just ask P&B whether people are guilty or not guilty and also get their constitution sorted out on here. (Some of us think) we have all the correct answers. Indeed, or they could embark on a programme of enlightened democratic reform. But I guess they can’t because gun toting loonballs would carry out a series of massacres. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 8 hours ago, welshbairn said: Would you not agree that when a system you agree is faulty decides on an outcome that appears to you to be morally unjust, it's ok to say so? I would agree, but when you are happy to accepts its guilty verdicts with delight and place faith in the system accordingly, you should probably accept it’s appeals outcome with a level of circumspection in the same case. I fully accepted Crosby’s guilt when he was convicted. Now that the conviction has been quashed I cannot maintain that position, however surprised I am by it. My surprise is irrelevant as I do not have all the facts and only have the information presented by the media. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 I would agree, but when you are happy to accepts its guilty verdicts with delight and place faith in the system accordingly, you should probably accept it’s appeals outcome with a level of circumspection in the same case. I fully accepted Crosby’s guilt when he was convicted. Now that the conviction has been quashed I cannot maintain that position, however surprised I am by it. My surprise is irrelevant as I do not have all the facts and only have the information presented by the media. You really don't get the word "technicality", do you?By the way, no matter how much you batter on, Cosby has not been declared innocent by anyone except you. The legal term, as you're so keen on being correct, would be "not guilty". This, in itself, is shorthand, for "unable to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt".Cosby is a rapist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: You really don't get the word "technicality", do you? By the way, no matter how much you batter on, Cosby has not been declared innocent by anyone except you. The legal term, as you're so keen on being correct, would be "not guilty". This, in itself, is shorthand, for "unable to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt". Cosby is a rapist. Cosby may well be a rapist, but in the absence of a conviction his legal status is innocent. If you are willing to accept convictions can be founded on technical legal points then one cannot complain when convictions are overturned on “technicalities”. Also pretty alarming that you think Not Guilty doesn’t also mean innocent. Edited July 2, 2021 by Thorongil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Cosby may well be a rapist, but in the absence of a conviction his legal status is innocent. If you are willing to accept convictions can be founded on technical legal points then one cannot complain when convictions are overturned on “technicalities”. Also pretty alarming that you think Not Guilty doesn’t also mean innocent. Yes, it's all about terms, let's boil it down to words and not consider the victims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Also pretty alarming that you think Not Guilty doesn’t also mean innocent. It doesn’t. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, RH33 said: Yes, it's all about terms, let's boil it down to words and not consider the victims. I agree. The law must be dispassionate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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