Popular Post Doctor Manhattan Posted July 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Bairnardo said: Folk arent claiming its racist to laugh at Chiellini bodying Saka now are they? Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?) 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 19 minutes ago, Doctor Manhattan said: Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?) Utterly, utterly delectable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: All those trying to work out how the Saka/train gag can be offensive without referring to his race: Just Google Robert Enke. Lots of things can be offensive without referring to race, obviously. Presumably you're not imagining that the person who made the train meme was thinking of Robert Enke when they made it? So you're saying it's basically insensitive to make any reference to a footballer running in front a train because that's how Enke committed suicide? Would it need to have been a footballer, or just anyone? Do you think it's possible to make a reference to anything without some tragic incident being in some way associated with what you're referencing? Are memes with dogs in them offensive because some dogs have killed people? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 27 minutes ago, Doctor Manhattan said: Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?) Complete disrespect towards one of the best players on the planet. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Binos said: To get worked up about it is simply standard for the modern day And again, nobody is getting "worked up", even a wee bit. Instead, Savage Henry said he was a little uncomfortable with those ones and I said that yes, I felt a bit the same way. Once more, that really is all. Nobody is being insulted or derided for seeing it differently. It doesn't make those fine with it wicked, or those expressing reservations, Helen Lovejoys either. We can just differ a bit. That's actually ok. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 54 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Lots of things can be offensive without referring to race, obviously. Presumably you're not imagining that the person who made the train meme was thinking of Robert Enke when they made it? So you're saying it's basically insensitive to make any reference to a footballer running in front a train because that's how Enke committed suicide? Would it need to have been a footballer, or just anyone? Do you think it's possible to make a reference to anything without some tragic incident being in some way associated with what you're referencing? Are memes with dogs in them offensive because some dogs have killed people? Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended. Just noticing that everyone is jumping to the race angle, when the only racist bit I've seen over this foul wasn't in any of the many memes and gifs doing the rounds - rather, it was in the (apparently serious) attempt by some loon trying to get a petition up to replay the final. So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know. I find the immediate jump by many to frame this in terms of race lazy and, yes, offensive. And I foulnd the petition for the replay sad, offensive, and pretty damn funny (if serious, still a better gag (without the slave comment)if its fake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended... So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know. Exactly this. My thoughts turned to Chris Mitchell, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to think that way. No outrage here - just a comment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know. But you can know about Robert Enke, and also know that hundreds, possibly thousands of people have lost their lives in similar circumstances and understand that it's not offensive because it's clearly not making reference to any of those incidents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Gordon EF said: But you can know about Robert Enke, and also know that hundreds, possibly thousands of people have lost their lives in similar circumstances and understand that it's not offensive because it's clearly not making reference to any of those incidents. 'Offensive' is a red herring. We can not like things, without being deeply hurt or offended by them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Hams will be getting steamed again at the Olympics - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/15/united-in-our-decision-team-gb-footballers-to-take-knee-at-olympics 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: 'Offensive' is a red herring. We can not like things, without being deeply hurt or offended by them. True. I'm not trying to say you guys are actually offended by this. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between things that are deliberate or knowingly offensive or insensitive and things that tangentially cause upset. For example, if a comedian is making jokes about dead babies, that's clearly deliberately insensitive at least. If a comedian makes a joke about their baby and someone gets upset because they lost a child and it brings back memories of it, that's not really an insensitivity on the comedian's part. I think the whole 'Saka train meme' thing is far more similar to the latter scenario and it does strike me as a bit Lovejoyish to complain about it. Edited July 15, 2021 by Gordon EF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: True. I'm not trying to say you guys are actually offended by this. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between things that are deliberate or knowingly offensive or insensitive and things that tangentially cause upset. For example, if a comedian is making jokes about dead babies, that's clearly deliberately insensitive at least. If a comedian makes a joke about their baby and someone gets upset because they lost a child and it brings back memories of it, that's not really an insensitivity on the comedian's part. I think the whole 'Saka train meme' thing is far more similar to the latter scenario and it does strike be as a bit Lovejoyish to complain about it. Yip point taken. I've really got no intention of becoming too animated over this - I don't feel particularly invested in it either way. Your analogy has limited success here though. The image of a man stepping into the path of a train, has a more than tangential relationship with people stepping into the paths of trains. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yip point taken. I've really got no intention of becoming too animated over this - I don't feel particularly invested in it either way. Your analogy has limited success here though. The image of a man stepping into the path of a train, has a more than tangential relationship with people stepping into the paths of trains. I think the point still stands. How precisely any potential reference matches any potential and unknown real-life event isn't really the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Racist food now. Disgusting. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 30 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended. Just noticing that everyone is jumping to the race angle, when the only racist bit I've seen over this foul wasn't in any of the many memes and gifs doing the rounds - rather, it was in the (apparently serious) attempt by some loon trying to get a petition up to replay the final. So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know. I find the immediate jump by many to frame this in terms of race lazy and, yes, offensive. And I foulnd the petition for the replay sad, offensive, and pretty damn funny (if serious, still a better gag (without the slave comment)if its fake. Missing such an important penalty cannot be good for one s well being. Relatively recently Don Masson released his book , and his failure against Peru was still a large topic of conversation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Racist food now. Disgusting. *Incredibly Kent voice* "I see they're not naming their shawarma after some famous Muslim, seems it's one rule for indigenous Brits like are Piers and another for" *garbled noises as dragged off stage by the woke police 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: *Incredibly Kent voice* "I see they're not naming their shawarma after some famous Muslim, seems it's one rule for indigenous Brits like are Piers and another for" *garbled noises as dragged off stage by the woke police They could have served it on shook and called it the Abu Hamza. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 I'd just like to add about the train thing, from what I could see on Twitter, nobody seemed upset at the train gif, it seemed as though there was some sort of inferred racism. Also when you consider what was mentioned in that petition I think that is the "offended" angle people have been taking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 7 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: That guy is my new favourite England fan. Being filmed snorting coke to rapturous cheers, sticking a flare up your arse, getting in the stadium without a ticket and then trying to make out what was happening through 3 grams and 20 cans, without feeling a jot of shame. Some boy You've got to say fair play to someone that can go on that size of a publicly documented bender and not even have an inkling of the fear afterwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 50 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: I think the point still stands. How precisely any potential reference matches any potential and unknown real-life event isn't really the point. A couple of actual real life events have been cited though. That the image evoked those for some of us, made us uneasy with them. That's all anyone is saying. If the pictures showed Saka holding a gun to his head, that might have caused you discomfort - I don't know. We all draw lines and, unsurprisingly, we don't all draw them in identical places. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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