Euro 2020 Final - England vs Italy

[Cheese]

[Thistle_do_nicely]

20 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Enke (sadly) committed suicide. The joke in the gif is Chiellini saving him from being hit by train when a lot of English supporters were complaining Chiellini had all but assaulted Saka.

It's in no way a joke about suicide. To get worked up about it is just ridiculous. It could be applied to him stopping Saka from jumping off a cliff, it's still not taking the piss out of suicide.

I think folk need to stop looking into things like this too deeply tbh or we'll not be allowed to laugh at anything for fear of folk being offended.

I'm not suggesting you're offended FWIW, I know you just highlighted Enke's case.

agree with this yeah. Its kinda a similar energy to try to get worked up about it as that old Extras bit where Sir Ian McKellen goes "when Peter Jackson called me up I had to explain to him - you know Peter, I'm not actually a wizard. And he said yes I understand that Sir Ian but I want you to use your acting skills to portray the wizard Gandalf for the duration of the movie."

It's an animated .gif in the same spirit as some cartoony nonsense like Tom and Jerry (look at the age of the second fucking train ffs )

Edit: oh I mind all of the old Zidane headbutt .gifs (so very long ago now, christ). I don't think they were condoning assault tbh.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Binos]

18 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Enke (sadly) committed suicide. The joke in the gif is Chiellini saving him from being hit by train when a lot of English supporters were complaining Chiellini had all but assaulted Saka.

It's in no way a joke about suicide. To get worked up about it is just ridiculous. It could be applied to him stopping Saka from jumping off a cliff, it's still not taking the piss out of suicide.

I think folk need to stop looking into things like this too deeply tbh or we'll not be allowed to laugh at anything for fear of folk being offended.

I'm not suggesting you're offended FWIW, I know you just highlighted Enke's case.

To get worked up about it is simply standard for the modern day 

[Doctor Manhattan]

3 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Folk arent claiming its racist to laugh at Chiellini bodying Saka now are they?

Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?)

[Bairnardo]

19 minutes ago, Doctor Manhattan said:

Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?)

Utterly, utterly delectable 

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

All those trying to work out how the Saka/train gag can be offensive without referring to his race:

Just Google Robert Enke.

Lots of things can be offensive without referring to race, obviously.

Presumably you're not imagining that the person who made the train meme was thinking of Robert Enke when they made it? So you're saying it's basically insensitive to make any reference to a footballer running in front a train because that's how Enke committed suicide?

Would it need to have been a footballer, or just anyone? Do you think it's possible to make a reference to anything without some tragic incident being in some way associated with what you're referencing?

Are memes with dogs in them offensive because some dogs have killed people?

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

27 minutes ago, Doctor Manhattan said:

Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?)

Complete disrespect towards one of the best players on the planet.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Binos said:

To get worked up about it is simply standard for the modern day 

And again, nobody is getting "worked up", even a wee bit.

Instead, Savage Henry said he was a little uncomfortable with those ones and I said that yes, I felt a bit the same way.

 

Once more, that really is all.  Nobody is being insulted or derided for seeing it differently.  It doesn't make those fine with it wicked, or those expressing reservations, Helen Lovejoys either.  We can just differ a bit.  That's actually ok.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

54 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Lots of things can be offensive without referring to race, obviously.

Presumably you're not imagining that the person who made the train meme was thinking of Robert Enke when they made it? So you're saying it's basically insensitive to make any reference to a footballer running in front a train because that's how Enke committed suicide?

Would it need to have been a footballer, or just anyone? Do you think it's possible to make a reference to anything without some tragic incident being in some way associated with what you're referencing?

Are memes with dogs in them offensive because some dogs have killed people?

Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended. Just noticing that everyone is jumping to the race angle, when the only racist bit I've seen over this foul wasn't in any of the many memes and gifs doing the rounds - rather, it was in the (apparently serious) attempt by some loon trying to get a petition up to replay the final. 

So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know.

I find the immediate jump by many to frame this in terms of race lazy and, yes, offensive.

And I foulnd the petition for the replay sad, offensive, and pretty damn funny (if serious, still a better gag (without the slave comment)if its fake.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended... So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know.

Exactly this.

My thoughts turned to Chris Mitchell, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to think that way.

No outrage here - just a comment.

 

[Gordon EF]

6 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know.

But you can know about Robert Enke, and also know that hundreds, possibly thousands of people have lost their lives in similar circumstances and understand that it's not offensive because it's clearly not making reference to any of those incidents.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

But you can know about Robert Enke, and also know that hundreds, possibly thousands of people have lost their lives in similar circumstances and understand that it's not offensive because it's clearly not making reference to any of those incidents.

'Offensive' is a red herring.  We can not like things, without being deeply hurt or offended by them.

[carpetmonster]

Hams will be getting steamed again at the Olympics - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/15/united-in-our-decision-team-gb-footballers-to-take-knee-at-olympics

[Gordon EF]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

'Offensive' is a red herring.  We can not like things, without being deeply hurt or offended by them.

True. I'm not trying to say you guys are actually offended by this. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between things that are deliberate or knowingly offensive or insensitive and things that tangentially cause upset.

For example, if a comedian is making jokes about dead babies, that's clearly deliberately insensitive at least. If a comedian makes a joke about their baby and someone gets upset because they lost a child and it brings back memories of it, that's not really an insensitivity on the comedian's part. I think the whole 'Saka train meme' thing is far more similar to the latter scenario and it does strike me as a bit Lovejoyish to complain about it.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Gordon EF

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

True. I'm not trying to say you guys are actually offended by this. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between things that are deliberate or knowingly offensive or insensitive and things that tangentially cause upset.

For example, if a comedian is making jokes about dead babies, that's clearly deliberately insensitive at least. If a comedian makes a joke about their baby and someone gets upset because they lost a child and it brings back memories of it, that's not really an insensitivity on the comedian's part. I think the whole 'Saka train meme' thing is far more similar to the latter scenario and it does strike be as a bit Lovejoyish to complain about it.

Yip point taken. I've really got no intention of becoming too animated over this - I don't feel particularly invested in it either way.

Your analogy has limited success here though.  The image of a man stepping into the path of a train, has a more than tangential relationship with people stepping into the paths of trains.

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yip point taken. I've really got no intention of becoming too animated over this - I don't feel particularly invested in it either way.

Your analogy has limited success here though.  The image of a man stepping into the path of a train, has a more than tangential relationship with people stepping into the paths of trains.

I think the point still stands. How precisely any potential reference matches any potential and unknown real-life event isn't really the point.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Racist food now. Disgusting.

[ewan14]

30 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended. Just noticing that everyone is jumping to the race angle, when the only racist bit I've seen over this foul wasn't in any of the many memes and gifs doing the rounds - rather, it was in the (apparently serious) attempt by some loon trying to get a petition up to replay the final. 

So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know.

I find the immediate jump by many to frame this in terms of race lazy and, yes, offensive.

And I foulnd the petition for the replay sad, offensive, and pretty damn funny (if serious, still a better gag (without the slave comment)if its fake.

Missing such an important penalty cannot be good for one s well being.

Relatively recently Don Masson released his book , and his failure against Peru was still a large topic of conversation

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Racist food now. Disgusting.

*Incredibly Kent voice* "I see they're not naming their shawarma after some famous Muslim, seems it's one rule for indigenous Brits like are Piers and another for" *garbled noises as dragged off stage by the woke police

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

*Incredibly Kent voice* "I see they're not naming their shawarma after some famous Muslim, seems it's one rule for indigenous Brits like are Piers and another for" *garbled noises as dragged off stage by the woke police

They could have served it on shook and called it the Abu Hamza.