The Gender Debate

[andyg83]

https://www.newsweek.com/new-homophobia-opinion-1698969

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/05/14/the-new-homophobia/#.ZGDcXO9HO78.twitter

 

This story mirrors one from someone I knew in childhood very well. 

These were retreated by JK Rowling and Helen Joyce on Twitter.

Both make for an interesting read. 

This also interesting 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-founder-simon-fanshaw-trans-gender-rights-interview-2023-zndfc8bmk

Edited May 14, 2023 by andyg83

[carpetmonster]

45 minutes ago, andyg83 said:

https://www.newsweek.com/new-homophobia-opinion-1698969

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/05/14/the-new-homophobia/#.ZGDcXO9HO78.twitter

 

This story mirrors one from someone I knew in childhood very well. 

These were retreated by JK Rowling and Helen Joyce on Twitter.

Both make for an interesting read. 

This also interesting 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-founder-simon-fanshaw-trans-gender-rights-interview-2023-zndfc8bmk

I’d avoid mentioning Joyce if you’re keeping up the ‘legitimate concerns’ pish given she says the quiet bits out loud - https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/06/03/helen-joyce-transgender-lgbtq/

[welshbairn]

It's interesting that the gender critical lobby don't seem to want to discuss gender anymore, only sex, and specifically biological sex at birth. Makes it easier to do the gotcha questions I suppose, like 'does a woman have a vagina'.

[SweeperDee]

Just caught up on the last 5 pages; can we not reply to the gin riddled The Rangers supporters please. 

[andyg83]

9 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

I’d avoid mentioning Joyce if you’re keeping up the ‘legitimate concerns’ pish given she says the quiet bits out loud - https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/06/03/helen-joyce-transgender-lgbtq/

I am reading her book right now. It's certainly interesting. 

[andyg83]

10 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

I’d avoid mentioning Joyce if you’re keeping up the ‘legitimate concerns’ pish given she says the quiet bits out loud - https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/06/03/helen-joyce-transgender-lgbtq/

"play the ball not the man" a someone said earlier?

[andyg83]

9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

It's interesting that the gender critical lobby don't seem to want to discuss gender anymore, only sex, and specifically biological sex at birth. Makes it easier to do the gotcha questions I suppose, like 'does a woman have a vagina'.

On what planet is that an unreasonable question?

 

[carpetmonster]

1 hour ago, andyg83 said:

"play the ball not the man" a someone said earlier?

That makes literally zero sense. Joyce says ‘every trans person is a huge problem to a sane world’ and ‘their number must be reduced’. What are the ball and the man here? 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, andyg83 said:

On what planet is that an unreasonable question?

 

One where it's acknowledged that sex and gender do not necessarily mean the same, otherwise why have different words?

Quote

Sex refers to “the different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc.”
Gender refers to "the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed. The concept of gender includes five important elements: relational, hierarchical, historical, contextual and institutional. While most people are born either male or female, they are taught appropriate norms and behaviours – including how they should interact with others of the same or opposite sex within households, communities and work places. When individuals or groups do not “fit” established gender norms they often face stigma, discriminatory practices or social exclusion – all of which adversely affect health.” World Health Organisation

 

[andyg83]

9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

One where it's acknowledged that sex and gender do not necessarily mean the same, otherwise why have different words?

 

This is where the right wing loons get traction though. It's crazy when laid out like that. 

[andyg83]

12 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

That makes literally zero sense. Joyce says ‘every trans person is a huge problem to a sane world’ and ‘their number must be reduced’. What are the ball and the man here? 

Her book is a bore to be honest but she does manage to make the is decent point now and then. 

 

She is a very compelling speaker and is very confident in her own views. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by andyg83

[TxRover]

19 hours ago, andyg83 said:

This is where the right wing loons get traction though. It's crazy when laid out like that. 

Have you even looked at a dictionary:

Sex - 

1) the male, female, or sometimes intersex division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions or physical characteristics such as genitals, XX and XY chromosomes, etc.

2) a label assigned to a person at birth, usually male or female and sometimes intersex, and typically based on genital configuration.See Usage note at the current entry.

3) the sum of the structural and functional differences by which male, female, and sometimes intersex organisms are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.

Gender -

1) either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior.

2) a similar category of human beings that is outside the male/female binary classification.

3) the concept or system of categories such as male and female.

 

Whoops…sex and gender are NOT identical, and are, in fact, not necessarily related.

[carpetmonster]

20 hours ago, andyg83 said:

Her book is a bore to be honest but she does manage to make the is decent point now and then. 

 

She is a very compelling speaker and is very confident in her own views. 

Per your add-on: she's little more than a Karen who's unwittingly gotten too close to a Black person minding their own business and is now shrieking for police. To wit; Kellie-Jay Keen's latest fash bash in Brum where Joyce asserts that counter-protestors are 'anti-woman terrorists' - pretty inflammatory rhetoric. 

The inflammatory rhetoric obviously works, because here's an attendee who's seen fit to be scared enough to equip himself with an illegal weapon. 

 

 

meanwhile, on Keen's side you have this completely balanced individual - WARNING NSFW - who seems to have forgotten the mantra of 'it's trans people and drag queens who sexualize children with their presence' given you can clearly see children in attendance. There is another video where Keen goes and adjusts the mic and lets her continue, but I'm drawing a blank on finding it just now. 

And on the counter protestors side? Well, someone has a mouth organ. Graham Linehan's very concerned about that. 

For someone to be a 'compelling speaker' you have to be prepared to be compelled. You're not alone. Plenty of folks are. That's why the likes of Joyce and Keen do it

 

And meanwhile Keen's husband, Ryan Minshull....

They're all laughing at you mate. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by carpetmonster
formatting

[andyg83]

54 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Per your add-on: she's little more than a Karen who's unwittingly gotten too close to a Black person minding their own business and is now shrieking for police. To wit; Kellie-Jay Keen's latest fash bash in Brum where Joyce asserts that counter-protestors are 'anti-woman terrorists' - pretty inflammatory rhetoric. 

The inflammatory rhetoric obviously works, because here's an attendee who's seen fit to be scared enough to equip himself with an illegal weapon. 

 

 

meanwhile, on Keen's side you have this completely balanced individual - WARNING NSFW - who seems to have forgotten the mantra of 'it's trans people and drag queens who sexualize children with their presence' given you can clearly see children in attendance. There is another video where Keen goes and adjusts the mic and lets her continue, but I'm drawing a blank on finding it just now. 

And on the counter protestors side? Well, someone has a mouth organ. Graham Linehan's very concerned about that. 

For someone to be a 'compelling speaker' you have to be prepared to be compelled. You're not alone. Plenty of folks are. That's why the likes of Joyce and Keen do it

 

And meanwhile Keen's husband, Ryan Minshull....

They're all laughing at you mate. 

Wild eh? 

[andyg83]

2 hours ago, TxRover said:

Have you even looked at a dictionary:

Sex - 

1) the male, female, or sometimes intersex division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions or physical characteristics such as genitals, XX and XY chromosomes, etc.

2) a label assigned to a person at birth, usually male or female and sometimes intersex, and typically based on genital configuration.See Usage note at the current entry.

3) the sum of the structural and functional differences by which male, female, and sometimes intersex organisms are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.

Gender -

1) either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior.

2) a similar category of human beings that is outside the male/female binary classification.

3) the concept or system of categories such as male and female.

 

Whoops…sex and gender are NOT identical, and are, in fact, not necessarily related.

When was the dictionary updated with it because that's just wild. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by andyg83

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, andyg83 said:

Wild eh? 

nah, just depressing. 

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, andyg83 said:

When was the dictionary updated with it because that's just wild. 

About 1900.

[itzdrk]

3 hours ago, TxRover said:

sex and gender are NOT identical

 

[Wee Bully]

2 hours ago, andyg83 said:

When was the dictionary updated with it because that's just wild. 

Are you honestly struggling with two different words not having exactly the same meaning as each other?

[andyg83]

15 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

Are you honestly struggling with two different words not having exactly the same meaning as each other?

yes