Mr Waldo Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 4 hours ago, ICTChris said: There was a report from the Royal United Services Institution a few months back on the air war in Ukraine and at least one of the authors considered the Gripen a superior option for Ukraine. I am sure the military fanbois could argue for either all day but Gripen is cheaper to use and does not as good a runway. Meteor is better than Amraam. I'm sure Ukraine will do just fine either either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 21 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said: I am sure the military fanbois could argue for either all day but Gripen is cheaper to use and does not as good a runway. Meteor is better than Amraam. I'm sure Ukraine will do just fine either either. Gripen would be massively superior due to its unimproved runway ability. F-16’s require lengthy and smooth runways, rather easily targeted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDickFingers Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) Pros & cons to both f16 / gripen some of which mentioned above. The biggest issues is going to be the BVR load out made avaible for each platform. If you get F16 ideally you'd want the latest versions of the AIM120 the C7/8 or D variant which are all current frontline US weapons. Likewise the gripen would need meteor which would require Britain,Sweden,France, Germany, Italy and Spain to approve export Unlikely to get either as it stands currently. Edited May 25, 2023 by TommyDickFingers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Russian Air Force bombing runs against the Belgorod incursion. Take that grass! https://twitter.com/archer83able/status/1661820191532097536?s=46&t=VI9PBOGiArQ8qgQBk99O4w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Ukrainian socialist perspective. The interviewee is a member of Sotsialniy Rukh who, incidentally, are actively partnered with John McDonnell's Ukraine Solidarity Campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 Same guy, Denys Pilash of Sotsialniy Rukh, but a short read rather than long listen: https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7877 The priority is debt cancellation. A suspension has been achieved in the meantime. Caroline Lucas (Green), Chris Law (SNP) and Richard Burgon (Labour) were especially important UK advocates for it: https://debtjustice.org.uk/news/campaign-success-cancel-ukraines-debt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 https://twitter.com/news161ru/status/1661932722489552897?t=S8fXsoiAjHYbTedtAf_w4g&s=19 A drone causes damage, to downtown Krasnodar... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 Nine years ago today the first Battle of Donetsk airport began. The Ukrainian forces prevailed initially but were pushed out following the second battle in late 2014 and early 2015. Ukrainian troops fought almost hand to hand, floor to floor in the airport against Russian marines, Kadyrov forces and other Russian troops. There is still fighting nearby to the airport, with several artillery strikes on Russian forces there this week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 Less than a year before the start of the battle, here is the Donetsk airport Twitter account, announcing direct flights to London, Rome, Milan and Memmingen. https://twitter.com/dok_aero/status/349877587591442435?s=46&t=VI9PBOGiArQ8qgQBk99O4w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1662018798054961154?t=t0jU-M4zGjkefV1P8d-UMA&s=19 Stark Images of Bakhmut - from RIA - Russian media outlet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 3 hours ago, jagfox said: https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1662018798054961154?t=t0jU-M4zGjkefV1P8d-UMA&s=19 Stark Images of Bakhmut - from RIA - Russian media outlet. But did your coupon come in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, TommyDickFingers said: Pros & cons to both f16 / gripen some of which mentioned above. The biggest issues is going to be the BVR load out made avaible for each platform. If you get F16 ideally you'd want the latest versions of the AIM120 the C7/8 or D variant which are all current frontline US weapons. Likewise the gripen would need meteor which would require Britain,Sweden,France, Germany, Italy and Spain to approve export Unlikely to get either as it stands currently. I still can't make up my mind. What colour are they? Edited May 26, 2023 by Sergeant Wilson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 3 hours ago, jagfox said: https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1662018798054961154?t=t0jU-M4zGjkefV1P8d-UMA&s=19 Stark Images of Bakhmut - from RIA - Russian media outlet. Seems ridiculous that just about everything gets obliterated but the ferris wheel and church remain largely unscathed. Inverse precision bombing - destroy everything but those two landmarks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I still can't make up my mind. What colour are they? Depends… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, alta-pete said: Seems ridiculous that just about everything gets obliterated but the ferris wheel and church remain largely unscathed. Inverse precision bombing - destroy everything but those two landmarks. Church is likely an Orthodox one, as the golden onion domes suggest, generally seen as favorable to Russia…maybe a factor. Ferris wheel is located in an area with little cover for fighting and is a strong frame with little area to “catch” blast pressure waves. It would likely take a direct hit on the frame to topple it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDickFingers Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I still can't make up my mind. What colour are they? You can pick any colour you want min, it's just the meteor is twice the price of the aim120(brexit innit blud). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 56 minutes ago, TommyDickFingers said: You can pick any colour you want min, it's just the meteor is twice the price of the aim120(brexit innit blud). Figured the EU would hold a three MiGs for the price of two sale on Meteor. On a more serious note, since Meteor hasn’t seen actual combat, and the AIM-120 has (in various versions), I would expect that MBDA would be absolutely wetting themselves at the idea of getting some Meteors into Ukrainian hands and splashing some missiles and MiGs. Given the huge impact of cruise and SRBM missiles in this conflict, and the expectation this style of missile use will reoccur going forward, the possible future sales for a proven effective anti-missile missile are immense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDickFingers Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, TxRover said: Figured the EU would hold a three MiGs for the price of two sale on Meteor. On a more serious note, since Meteor hasn’t seen actual combat, and the AIM-120 has (in various versions), I would expect that MBDA would be absolutely wetting themselves at the idea of getting some Meteors into Ukrainian hands and splashing some missiles and MiGs. Given the huge impact of cruise and SRBM missiles in this conflict, and the expectation this style of missile use will reoccur going forward, the possible future sales for a proven effective anti-missile missile are immense. I'd hazard a guess the reason they won't give any current frontine bvr weapon to Ukr is that the west would rightly be wetting themselves at the mere thought of Russia and arguably more importantly China getting their hands on the tech. Of course the state of the ongoing situation in Ukr will dictate how long that remains the case. The need to showcase or prove the tech wouldn't be a high priority imho, every country and their dog would be sending the takemymoney.gif for either weapon regardless. Edited May 26, 2023 by TommyDickFingers Dickfingers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 They don't need to give Ukraine the high end stuff. They're overmatching the Russians with surplus NATO stock and life end missiles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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