Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Guest Jedi]

Sounds good, if that $650 billion fund can be sunk, now we are talking. 

[Wee-Bey]

Johnson's latest round of sanctions are expected to hit Putin hard with the following apparently on the table.

- Rasputin by Boney M to be removed from Spotify with immediate effect.

- Those mad videos of guys hanging off the roof of high buildings to be demonitized on YouTube

 

[SweeperDee]

Makes sense the slush fund is essentially useless if they can’t trade their reserves for more rubles.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Johnson's latest round of sanctions are expected to hit Putin hard with the following apparently on the table.
- Rasputin by Boney M to be removed from Spotify with immediate effect.
- Those mad videos of guys hanging off the roof of high buildings to be demonitized on YouTube
 

Here is the "Russian Bear" after BoJo's brutal, unprecedented sanctions.

[G_&_T]

 

This video from the 1980s makes interesting viewing. I have shared it with a few of my friends who have suggested us and the Americans join in the conflict. 

Crikey, things were different back then. 

[Guest Jedi]

Just need a serious media expose of where all that Tory oligarch money is coming from now...

Meanwhile Zelinsky is some boi....shows what a proper leader is like.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Just need a serious media expose of where all that Tory oligarch money is coming from now...

Meanwhile Zelinsky is some boi....shows what a proper leader is like.

The Tories spent the initial tranche, mission accomplished, that's why the UK is in the state it's in now.

[Florentine_Pogen]

Vasilkov oil terminal , 10km south of Kyiv, has been targetted and is ablaze. Ecological tragedy incoming perhaps...............................

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to the the Ministry of Internal Affairs , said on Telegram.

"The missile attack was carried out on the Vasilkovskaya oil depot of the KLO company. Rescuers have already left for the scene of the tragedy. Most likely, there were no casualties. It will burn for a long time. The environmental damage will be colossal.”

Unconfirmed reports are filtering in that a gas pipeline is on fire in Kharkiv after a Russian attack.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Florentine_Pogen

[CaspianChris]

59 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

Russia would’ve wanted Kyiv wrapped up at least by yesterday, so full credit to the army and civillians keeping the c***s out. Looks like a long night ahead though.

God have mercy on the Ukrainians in those  major cities if the Russians end up unleashing Thermobaric weapons on them.

An absolutely horrendous prospect.

[G_&_T]

Anybody else feel like this is seeing a car accident - you don't want to look; you know you shouldn't look; but it's so compelling that you have to look? I feel very guilty, as it's almost like a TV drama. 

A lot of folk don't seem to understand how nasty war is. Anyone old enough remember Iraq/Kuwait when the Iraqi army fled and the Allies bombed them when trapped in their vehicles? 

 

[CaspianChris]

So never a protection mission as that lying b*****d Putin was saying at the start but it's a mission of the extermination of Ukraine. 

The quicker evil dictator Putin expires from this life the better.

Edited February 27, 2022 by CaspianChris

[Florentine_Pogen]

4 minutes ago, G_&_T said:

Anybody else feel like this is seeing a car accident - you don't want to look; you know you shouldn't look; but it's so compelling that you have to look? I feel very guilty, as it's almost like a TV drama. 

A lot of folk don't seem to understand how nasty war is. Anyone old enough remember Iraq/Kuwait when the Iraqi army fled and the Allies bombed them when trapped in their vehicles? 

 

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dont-photograph-people-like-mom-will-think-war-see-tv-gulf-war-1991/

[Florentine_Pogen]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/26/putin-british-rich-mans-law-avoid-scrutiny-crippling-cost

"Truth is meant to be the first casualty of war, but in Britain the ability to tell the truth about Russia was gunned down before Putin ordered his armies to advance.You need to write about Russian power to understand fully the anger and shame plutocratic censorship brings. Anger because Britain is our country, and claims to be a free country, and yet foreign oligarchs can manipulate the truth here as surely as Putin can in Russia. Shame because we cannot perform the first duty of journalists and speak in plain English without our newspapers accepting the risk of staggering legal costs."

[Left Back]

29 minutes ago, G_&_T said:

Anybody else feel like this is seeing a car accident - you don't want to look; you know you shouldn't look; but it's so compelling that you have to look? I feel very guilty, as it's almost like a TV drama. 

A lot of folk don't seem to understand how nasty war is. Anyone old enough remember Iraq/Kuwait when the Iraqi army fled and the Allies bombed them when trapped in their vehicles? 

 

Could you tell us your experiences of being in a combat zone mate?  Give us your expertise about how nasty war is.

 

[welshbairn]

37 minutes ago, CaspianChris said:

So never a protection mission as that lying b*****d Putin was saying at the start but it's a mission of the extermination of Ukraine. 

The quicker evil dictator Putin expires from this life the better.

Interesting read about the Putin mindset.

Quote

A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but this is worth talking about separately a little later.
Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.
Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia - for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, that is, the creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine and an outpost for the West to put pressure on us, is only the second most important among them.

The first would always be the complex of a divided people, the complex of national humiliation - when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev), and then was forced to come to terms with the existence of two states, not one, but two peoples. That is, either to abandon their history, agreeing with the insane versions that "only Ukraine is the real Russia," or to gnash one's teeth helplessly, remembering the times when "we lost Ukraine." Returning Ukraine, that is, turning it back to Russia, would be more and more difficult with every decade - recoding, de-Russification of Russians and inciting Ukrainian Little Russians against Russians would gain momentum.
Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. In what borders, in what form will the alliance with Russia be fixed (through the CSTO and the Eurasian Union or the Union State of Russia and Belarus )? This will be decided after the end is put in the history of Ukraine as anti-Russia. In any case, the period of the split of the Russian people is coming to an end.
And here begins the second dimension of the coming new era - it concerns Russia's relations with the West. Not even Russia, but the Russian world, that is, three states, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, acting in geopolitical terms as a single whole. These relations have entered a new stage - the West sees the return of Russia to its historical borders in Europe . And he is loudly indignant at this, although in the depths of his soul he must admit to himself that it could not be otherwise.
Did someone in the old European capitals, in Paris and Berlin , seriously believe that Moscow would give up Kiev ? That the Russians will forever be a divided people? And at the same time when Europe is uniting, when the German and French elites are trying to seize control of European integration from the Anglo-Saxons and assemble a united Europe? Forgetting that the unification of Europe became possible only thanks to the unification of Germany, which happened according to the good Russian (albeit not very smart) will. To swipe after that also on Russian lands is not even the height of ingratitude, but of geopolitical stupidity. The West as a whole, and even more so Europe in particular, did not have the strength to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, and even more so to take Ukraine for itself. In order not to understand this, one had to be just geopolitical fools.

More precisely, there was only one option: to bet on the further collapse of Russia, that is, the Russian Federation. But the fact that it did not work should have been clear twenty years ago. And already fifteen years ago, after Putin's Munich speech, even the deaf could hear - Russia is returning.

Now the West is trying to punish Russia for the fact that it returned, for not justifying its plans to profit at its expense, for not allowing the expansion of the western space to the east. Seeking to punish us, the West thinks that relations with it are of vital importance to us. But this has not been the case for a long time - the world has changed, and this is well understood not only by Europeans, but also by the Anglo-Saxons who rule the West. No amount of Western pressure on Russia will lead to anything. There will be losses from the sublimation of confrontation on both sides, but Russia is ready for them morally and geopolitically. But for the West itself, an increase in the degree of confrontation incurs huge costs - and the main ones are not at all economic.
Europe, as part of the West, wanted autonomy - the German project of European integration does not make strategic sense while maintaining the Anglo-Saxon ideological, military and geopolitical control over the Old World. Yes, and it cannot be successful, because the Anglo-Saxons need a controlled Europe. But Europe needs autonomy for another reason as well — in case the States go into self-isolation (as a result of growing internal conflicts and contradictions) or focus on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical center of gravity is moving.

But the confrontation with Russia, into which the Anglo-Saxons are dragging Europe, deprives the Europeans of even the chance of independence - not to mention the fact that in the same way Europe is trying to impose a break with China . If now the Atlanticists are happy that the "Russian threat" will unite the Western bloc, then in Berlin and Paris they cannot fail to understand that, having lost hope for autonomy, the European project will simply collapse in the medium term. That is why independent-minded Europeans are now completely uninterested in building a new iron curtain on their eastern borders - realizing that it will turn into a corral for Europe. Whose century (more precisely, half a millennium) of global leadership is over in any case - but various options for its future are still possible.
Because the construction of a new world order - and this is the third dimension of current events - is accelerating, and its contours are more and more clearly visible through the spreading cover of Anglo-Saxon globalization. A multipolar world has finally become a reality - the operation in Ukraine is not capable of rallying anyone but the West against Russia. Because the rest of the world sees and understands perfectly well - this is a conflict between Russia and the West, this is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, this is Russia's return of its historical space and its place in the world.

China and India , Latin America and Africa , the Islamic world and Southeast Asia - no one believes that the West leads the world order, much less sets the rules of the game. Russia has not only challenged the West, it has shown that the era of Western global domination can be considered completely and finally over. The new world will be built by all civilizations and centers of power, naturally, together with the West (united or not) - but not on its terms and not according to its rules.

 

 

[G_&_T]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

Could you tell us your experiences of being in a combat zone mate?  Give us your expertise about how nasty war is.

 

I did two tours in Northern Ireland and one in Bosnia. That gave me PTSD, and I have had alcohol problems and and a divorce since. 

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Could you tell us your experiences of being in a combat zone mate?  Give us your expertise about how nasty war is.

 

Are you shell shocked by the Covid thread?

[Lurkst]

1 hour ago, G_&_T said:

 

This video from the 1980s makes interesting viewing. I have shared it with a few of my friends who have suggested us and the Americans join in the conflict. 

Crikey, things were different back then. 

I remember watching it at the time. A few sleepless nights followed 

 

[welshbairn]

58 minutes ago, G_&_T said:

Anybody else feel like this is seeing a car accident - you don't want to look; you know you shouldn't look; but it's so compelling that you have to look? I feel very guilty, as it's almost like a TV drama. 

A lot of folk don't seem to understand how nasty war is. Anyone old enough remember Iraq/Kuwait when the Iraqi army fled and the Allies bombed them when trapped in their vehicles? 

 

"The road to Basra" or "The Highway to Death" as it was called. They couldn't hide it from the media despite all the feeds about high tech weaponry hitting specific targets while the janitors had gone home. Horrendous stuff, then they left the Shia and Kurdish rebels to be massacred by Saddam after telling them they'd back them up to overthrow him.

Edited February 27, 2022 by welshbairn

[ICTChris]

Regarding the Chechen comments.

Its a little bit wrong to say they killed Dudayev as he was reasonable and then out a luscious in charge. After Dudayev was killed the war continued until the rebels defeated the Russian army in Grozny. Russian authorities ended up signing a peace treaty with the Chechen rebels, which gave them control over the territory, a de facto victory. The Chechen President then was Aslan Mashkadov, very much from the same political cloth as Dudayev. The proto state failed due to severe instability and the force is radical Islamism became dominant in the rebel movement, culminating in the 2007 rebel split, between secular and Islamist rebels.

Kadyrov rose to power later and his brutal control of Chechnya is important to Putins Russia. He keeps the most dangerous and unstable part of the country under control (it’s likely that over 250,000 people died in the Chechen wars and insurgency) and also allows his pro-Russian Chechen troops to be used in various hot spots. They are battle hardened, have a fearsome reputation and casualties there are easier politically than Russian conscripts dying. 

BBC Russian have published conversations showing that Kadyrov was informed very early about the invasion and his troops are seen as an important t part of it. There’s also some suggestion that there is little enthusiasm for this war among them. If they take heavy losses or start to become unmotivated then that could pose problems for the Russian regime in a number of ways.