highlandmac Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, ClydeTon said: Moscow today certainly isn't a Myth. However, it was important in 1812 for the sole reason that, as you say, Napoleon wanted it. He put most of his energy into capturing it, and after the city burned and the winter hit, he was left with no choice but to retreat. Moscow was, essentially, used as a massive trap. So for the Russian war plan, it was incredibly important. However, it wouldn't have seen Russia fall as the Tsar and Nobles generally stayed in Petrograd. The days of "capture the capital,win the war" are long gone It wasn't the case in 1812,it wouldn't have been the case in 1941 if the Germans had managed it&it wouldn't be the case nowadays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, doulikefish said: That what the bots on Twitter are saying...it's all been an elaborate ruse so Wagner can move to Belarus so they can take kiev from there Putin bots? Wagner bots? Think Wagner were responsible for a lot of these Rusky troll farms. Maybe a joint effort to dismiss the clusterfuck of a rebellion to a cunning plan status. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Meanwhile a 16 year old in occupied Berdyansk killed two Russian soldiers before being killed himself. Tigran Oganesyan filmed his last words. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 It's truly tragic than any 16 y.o. in this most civilised continent has to suffer such a fate. However, they are also heroes for doing what they did. And they shouldn't be forgotten. I'm sure they won't. On another note, it was quite frustrating to see people in the replies to that tweet blaming "all Russians" for this war - despite a large portion of them being regular civilians who are anti-war. Tens of thousands have lost family. Mainly because of conscription - Putin hasn't sent many of his properly trained men in. The only people at fault for this are the Kremlin and Wagner. Even at that, Wagner are just doing contract work... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, ClydeTon said: It's truly tragic than any 16 y.o. in this most civilised continent has to suffer such a fate. Which continent was it that colonised much of the world, started 2 world wars and continues to force its murderous foreign policy on the global south to this day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Which continent was it that colonised much of the world, started 2 world wars and continues to force its murderous foreign policy on the global south to this day? Antarctica? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 52 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Meanwhile a 16 year old in occupied Berdyansk killed two Russian soldiers before being killed himself. Tigran Oganesyan filmed his last words. He was Armenian heritage going by his name, Oganesyan. Ukraine was home to the 5th highest number of Armenian diaspora by nation prior to the 2022 invasion. Most Armenian-Ukrainians lived in the east so many will've been displaced or killed now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said: Antarctica? Fucking polar bears. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, ClydeTon said: The only people at fault for this are the Kremlin and Wagner. Even at that, Wagner are just doing contract work... Murderer isn't an acceptable career choice. The concept of Private Military Contractors is almost laughable its so dystopian. Bringing the market to the field of mass murder, a new frontier for capitalism. Prigozhin following in the slipstream of innovative entrepreneur Erik Prince. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, MazzyStar said: Which continent was it that colonised much of the world, started 2 world wars and continues to force its murderous foreign policy on the global south to this day? The foreign policy part can be equally attributed to North America, particularly the US. Europe has no clean hands, however on this continent we should be beyond wars as brutal as Ukraine's. 7 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said: Murderer isn't an acceptable career choice. The concept of Private Military Contractors is almost laughable its so dystopian. Bringing the market to the field of mass murder, a new frontier for capitalism. Prigozhin following in the slipstream of innovative entrepreneur Erik Prince. The reason I separated Wagner as a PMC is simple: they don't have a moral ground to base themselves on. They operate for money, they don't stop for a second to think of morals. Ironically, Mercenaries are illegal in Russia... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 26 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Fucking polar bears. Wrong pole. Should be "Fucking penguins " for Antarctica. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Fucking polar bears. An unusual but admittedly brave hobby. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said: Wrong pole. Should be "Fucking penguins " for Antarctica. I suspect he knows and that you've been wooshed tbqh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Loonytoons said: I suspect he knows and that you've been wooshed tbqh. Fair enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said: An unusual but admittedly brave hobby. Looking forward to some dodgy character assuring bored billionaires that it's perfectly safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, ClydeTon said: The reason I separated Wagner as a PMC is simple: they don't have a moral ground to base themselves on. They operate for money, they don't stop for a second to think of morals. Ironically, Mercenaries are illegal in Russia... The existence of PMCs makes war more likely because governments prefer to use them over their own state military for reasons such as: - It's a way of shoveling public money into private hands and any time that is being done, corrupt government members can take slices of the deals for themselves. - It gives nation states plausible deniability. "It wasn't us, it was that PMC over there". UAE has used both Erik Prince's and Yevgeny Prigozhin's PMCs, even in tandem together in Libya, yet faces no repercussions from it due to the plausible deniability. No sanctions or other punishments for UAE - It prevents the troops coming home in body bags media phenomenon which is bad for a governments popularity. There'll be other reasons too but I'm not informed enough to go into it any further. We can see, though, that the very existence of PMCs makes governments more likely to pursue imperialist military choices. So Wagner being available definitely factored into the Kremlin's decision to invade Ukraine and therefore we can blame Wagner for the invasion (as well as all their atrocities since it commenced). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said: The existence of PMCs makes war more likely because governments prefer to use them over their own state military for reasons such as: - It's a way of shoveling public money into private hands and any time that is being done, corrupt government members can take slices of the deals for themselves. - It gives nation states plausible deniability. "It wasn't us, it was that PMC over there". UAE has used both Erik Prince's and Yevgeny Prigozhin's PMCs, even in tandem together in Libya, yet faces no repercussions from it due to the plausible deniability. No sanctions or other punishments for UAE - It prevents the troops coming home in body bags media phenomenon which is bad for a governments popularity. There'll be other reasons too but I'm not informed enough to go into it any further. We can see, though, that the very existence of PMCs makes governments more likely to pursue imperialist military choices. So Wagner being available definitely factored into the Kremlin's decision to invade Ukraine and therefore we can blame Wagner for the invasion (as well as all their atrocities since it commenced). Not like the imperialist governments (US, UK, Russia, China, etc) needed an excuse. But yes, PMCs do open up a whole new issue in terms of nations being able to do whatever they want unchecked. As Russia shows, Mercenaries being illegal seems to be a law that doesn't apply to the gov't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, ClydeTon said: Not like the imperialist governments (US, UK, Russia, China, etc) needed an excuse. But yes, PMCs do open up a whole new issue in terms of nations being able to do whatever they want unchecked. As Russia shows, Mercenaries being illegal seems to be a law that doesn't apply to the gov't. The Honorable East India Company would certainly fit the profile as a PMC, so it’s not really like anything’s being opened up by them now…that wasn’t opened up a while back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, TxRover said: The Honorable East India Company would certainly fit the profile as a PMC, so it’s not really like anything’s being opened up by them now…that wasn’t opened up a while back. Long before the days of the UN and their rules on mercenaries in war, however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 38 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said: Wrong pole. Should be "Fucking penguins " for Antarctica. Aye, ok mr zoologist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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