Energy Prices

[Only one David Marsh]

They're still paying the standing charge no matter if they turn off electrical appliances for 10 minutes or not 

[Gordon EF]

20 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

It would in theory cause a problem for power generation as they are nominated for what they plan to produce over a period of the next few hours. If demand suddenly drops they would be told to de-load because there's nowhere for that power to go.

What I'm not sure about is who pays in that scenario. I do know that if a power station has to drop back from their nomination for their own reasons, they have to "buy back" the shortfall which can quickly run into mega money. So someone, somewhere is paying if the grid takes a big shock in demand.

It's a fairly stunning mis-understanding of how the electricity market works.

Suppliers are not producers. The same company might do both but they have to be separated. If you're power station A, you'll have sold your energy for, say, 9 PM - 10PM well in advance. So the deal is you produce x MW for £y. If, at 9PM demand plummets and there's an imbalance on the grid, National Grid might tell Power Station A to ramp down production by half to deal with it. But they still get paid for the original amount they would have produced, that's locked in. But Grid also have to pay them to turn down. That can be a negative amount. For example, we generate at £70/MWh and sell at £80/MWh, so we're happy to pay £60/MWh to not produce anything and still be paid £80/MWh for what we were supposed to be producing.

If people do this, electricity producers would make more money.... at the public expense.

But in a round-about way, it probably would hit suppliers. If the market is unexpectedly long and suppliers are on the wrong side of that imbalance (i.e., they're also long), they'll have to stump up for their own imbalance.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Gordon EF

[SuperSaints1877]

Surely a better way would be to deploy malware on the energy suppliers IT systems and hold them to ransom. 

Might be a bit more disruptive but hey ho.

[Bairnardo]

It's a fairly stunning mis-understanding of how the electricity market works.
Suppliers are not producers. The same company might do both but they have to be separated. If you're power station A, you'll have sold your energy for, say, 9 PM - 10PM well in advance. So the deal is you produce x MW for £y. If, at 9PM demand plummets and there's an imbalance on the grid, National Grid might tell Power Station A to ramp down production by half to deal with it. But they still get paid for the original amount they would have produced, that's locked in. But Grid also have to pay them to turn down. That can be a negative amount. For example, we generate at £70/MWh and sell at £80/MWh, so we're happy to pay £60/MWh to not produce anything and still be paid £80/MWh for what we were supposed to be producing.
If people do this, electricity producers would make more money.... at the public expense.

So in this scenario it's the national grid that get fucked then

[WeAreElgin]

Shit like that is FBPE twitter protesting at its finest. Most of the dolts driving that nonsense will have no skin in the game and it's just a way to get social media attention. An arbitrary number pulled out of thin air.

Where's Greenpeace hijacking oil rigs when you need them?

[101]

29 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Surely a better way would be to deploy malware on the energy suppliers IT systems and hold them to ransom. 

Might be a bit more disruptive but hey ho.

It's also illegal and not something everyone could do from home with minimum fuss.

[jakedee]

First statement recieved which includes new tariff. Used approx 12% less electricity than at the same period last year (using tumble dryer less, started moaning about lights left on, doors open etc). Although electricity use is 12% less, monthly bill is 20% more expensive, and that's only 10 days on the new tariff.
Looking forward to October [emoji849]

[gaz5]

First statement recieved which includes new tariff. Used approx 12% less electricity than at the same period last year (using tumble dryer less, started moaning about lights left on, doors open etc). Although electricity use is 12% less, monthly bill is 20% more expensive, and that's only 10 days on the new tariff.
Looking forward to October [emoji849]

I've been watching the smart meter since moving over to the new tariff.

We used to be well below £5 a day having heating on for a few hours and general electricity use.

At the weekend there, £13 and £11 per day, for roughly the same, maybe a bit more with the washing machine.

And that's before October.

How the f**k are people going to survive this shite. [emoji853]

[jakedee]

First bill since new tariff (includes 1 week of new pricing) and through switching everything off religiously and turning down my boiler settings and using less central heating, I've managed to knock about 20% off my bill from the previous month. Being in Spring helps.
Hasn't stopped my supplier recommending I nearly double my winter season direct debit amount (er....no thanks. I'll do that IF it needs it).
Almost certainly that will rise rapidly when the full month of new tariff kicks in but so far it's fine.

If you've knocked 20% off your bill, you must have used almost 50% less electricity than last month. That's some going.

[Gordon EF]

40 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Thankfully you're here to put us all right though eh? 

If you're one of the folk who thought a spontaneous switching off of lights would hit the pockets of power stations then yeah, sure, why not.

[mizfit]

In a one bed flat but I’ve managed to save £10 from my last bill by doing similar and going to the office more often than not. We’re gas central heating so saving money now it’s off for the spring / summer.

It’s an absolute scandal it’s gotten to this stage though.

[Clown Job]

7 minutes ago, jakedee said:

40 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

First bill since new tariff (includes 1 week of new pricing) and through switching everything off religiously and turning down my boiler settings and using less central heating, I've managed to knock about 20% off my bill from the previous month. Being in Spring helps.
Hasn't stopped my supplier recommending I nearly double my winter season direct debit amount (er....no thanks. I'll do that IF it needs it).
Almost certainly that will rise rapidly when the full month of new tariff kicks in but so far it's fine.

If you've knocked 20% off your bill, you must have used almost 50% less electricity than last month. That's some going.

Think you’ll see a lot of people being more aware of what they do now.

In the past my bills have always been relatively low (£90 per quarter for electricity) and I always put that down to turning off light, keeping doors closed, hanging out the washing etc…

 

[Shadow Play]

I notice there are reports that Ofgem have warned Ministers that if the war in Ukraine continues to disrupt gas supplies the average annual gas / electricity bill may rise to £5,000.  This has been described as worse case scenario.

The cap is still predicted to rise to about £2,400 in October, which is bad enough.  

[101]

Just now, Shadow Play said:

I notice there are reports that Ofgem have warned Ministers that if the war in Ukraine continues to disrupt gas supplies the average annual gas / electricity bill may rise to £5,000.  This has been described as worse case scenario.

The cap is still predicted to rise to about £2,400 in October, which is bad enough.  

That would mean around half the money a pensioner or a single person receiving benefits would have to send directly to their energy company.

Indeed for pensioners the winter fuel allowance next year might pay for a week's worth of usage over the winter. 

[Shadow Play]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

That would mean around half the money a pensioner or a single person receiving benefits would have to send directly to their energy company.

Indeed for pensioners the winter fuel allowance next year might pay for a week's worth of usage over the winter. 

Absolutely staggering figures being discussed now.  Hard to believe but in the ‘50s they were openly talking about the fact that the public would not be charged for the individual units of electricity they used as it would be so plentiful and so cheap to produce because of the nuclear power plants being planned.

 

[Rugster]

16 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I notice there are reports that Ofgem have warned Ministers that if the war in Ukraine continues to disrupt gas supplies the average annual gas / electricity bill may rise to £5,000.  This has been described as worse case scenario.

The cap is still predicted to rise to about £2,400 in October, which is bad enough.  

I’ve got suppliers of materials telling me if it continues they will have to ration their energy and cut their production times down by as much as 50%. Not sustainable. 

[101]

3 minutes ago, Rugster said:

I’ve got suppliers of materials telling me if it continues they will have to ration their energy and cut their production times down by as much as 50%. Not sustainable. 

I wonder how cremations will cope, their ovens are gas and can't scale back or combine folk in the same oven.

[Bairnardo]

I wonder how cremations will cope, their ovens are gas and can't scale back or combine folk in the same oven.

Soylent Green IMO

[mizfit]

I notice there are reports that Ofgem have warned Ministers that if the war in Ukraine continues to disrupt gas supplies the average annual gas / electricity bill may rise to £5,000.  This has been described as worse case scenario.
The cap is still predicted to rise to about £2,400 in October, which is bad enough.  

This is going to hit a proper crisis soon, and it’s going to be fucking terrifying.

[jakedee]

I can see the Tory's either limiting or delaying the October price cap rise, and be hailed as saviours by their compliant followers.