FIRE Discussion and Resources

[SuperSaints1877]

Thank you all for your constructive feedback yesterday.

I’ve had a chance to talk to other people down the pub last night and they echo your sentiments. I guess I was very naive. If only I had taken their advice years ago. What was I thinking?

I was taken in by the promise of low fee DIY investing and becoming a shareholder in the platform that operated the scheme. It all sounded ideal and everything seemed legit.
On the computer screen just now they tell me we have £1M invested in our accounts but now I see it for what it is. It must be a scam. It’s all bullshit. I doubt I’ll get any of that money back. They say they have $Trillions of assets under management. Ha ha. I’d chase the guy who started the scheme, but he supposedly died in 2019.

Be warned people. Don’t get involved in passive investing. It’s a mugs game. I should have taken peoples advice and bought lottery tickets and scratch cards instead. Now I’m starting to doubt whether I own my own house and car, or whether it’s all been an elaborate scam by the UK banks.

Maybe I will write a blog on my experiences to warn others about this cult. Or should I organise a group class action for all the other “investors” who have been scammed and take this company to court. 

Should I contact the FCA and try to get some money back? Anyone had experience of doing this?

If only I had known there were so many financial experts I’d have joined the site much sooner. 

Now I need to tell the wife. 

Any advice on what I should say to her?

Depending on her reaction it might just be best to say “Sorry” and “Goodbye”. Hopefully she will forgive me.

Keeping it simple after all was the mantra that got me into this mess after all. I don’t think I will every forget the tag line “avoid consumer debt; spend less than you earn and invest the difference.”

Thanks again for the wake up call. Hopefully with this experience under my belt I won’t fall for such a scam again.

Many people have failed before me with much worse losses and recovered. It’s only money after all and health is way more important than wealth. 

[scottsdad]

57 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Should I contact the FCA and try to get some money back? Anyone had experience of doing this?

The Ferengi Commerce Authority should sort you out

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Thank you all for your constructive feedback yesterday.

I’ve had a chance to talk to other people down the pub last night and they echo your sentiments. I guess I was very naive. If only I had taken their advice years ago. What was I thinking?

I was taken in by the promise of low fee DIY investing and becoming a shareholder in the platform that operated the scheme. It all sounded ideal and everything seemed legit.
On the computer screen just now they tell me we have £1M invested in our accounts but now I see it for what it is. It must be a scam. It’s all bullshit. I doubt I’ll get any of that money back. They say they have $Trillions of assets under management. Ha ha. I’d chase the guy who started the scheme, but he supposedly died in 2019.

Be warned people. Don’t get involved in passive investing. It’s a mugs game. I should have taken peoples advice and bought lottery tickets and scratch cards instead. Now I’m starting to doubt whether I own my own house and car, or whether it’s all been an elaborate scam by the UK banks.

Maybe I will write a blog on my experiences to warn others about this cult. Or should I organise a group class action for all the other “investors” who have been scammed and take this company to court. 

Should I contact the FCA and try to get some money back? Anyone had experience of doing this?

If only I had known there were so many financial experts I’d have joined the site much sooner. 

Now I need to tell the wife. 

Any advice on what I should say to her?

Depending on her reaction it might just be best to say “Sorry” and “Goodbye”. Hopefully she will forgive me.

Keeping it simple after all was the mantra that got me into this mess after all. I don’t think I will every forget the tag line “avoid consumer debt; spend less than you earn and invest the difference.”

Thanks again for the wake up call. Hopefully with this experience under my belt I won’t fall for such a scam again.

Many people have failed before me with much worse losses and recovered. It’s only money after all and health is way more important than wealth. 

Definitely at the Fezziwig's party stage. 

[SuperSaints1877]

I always had visions of retirement next to a beach.

Perhaps now that I’ve hit rock bottom and soon to be living in a cave the only way I will manage that is if I change the club I support and follow the lead of @scottsdad and @DA Baracus.

It seems following Falkirk and Dunfermline gives you that experience every second week. My club has never fallen to the depths of League 1, but I’m told it’s fun.

 

[scottsdad]

6 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

I always had visions of retirement next to a beach.

Perhaps now that I’ve hit rock bottom and soon to be living in a cave the only way I will manage that is if I change the club I support and follow the lead of @scottsdad and @DA Baracus.

It seems following Falkirk and Dunfermline gives you that experience every second week. My club has never fallen to the depths of League 1, but I’m told it’s fun.

 

[SuperSaints1877]

15 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

 

You must be pleased you have a few derby games to look forward to next season.

Will your 3 sided council owned ground be big enough for these two rival supports?

I’ve forgotten who our rivals are anymore as they have not been in the top league since the late 80s. @virginton probably was not even a glint in his faithers eyes it’s that long ago.

Oh look. How good is that Falkirk, Dunfermline, and Morton all relegated the same season from the top league 1987-88.

[Satoshi]

4 hours ago, virginton said:

You forgot about the dating aspect of it as well, which sounds in no way absolutely fucking tragic (although handily shunts them down a nice wee cul-de-sac away from the rest of society). 

Tbf, this was my first reaction too. But it's no more (or less) tragic than any other themed dating website - from furries to J-date. 

I won't be partaking as I really don't need the net to be even narrower.

4 hours ago, Thorongil said:

It clearly is. The culty zeal is sad and (on a level) amusing to read. It is amazing to me that people can be so dishonest with others and with themselves. 

Interested in exploring this further, on what level are people being dishonest (either to themselves or others)?

4 hours ago, Shandon Par said:

As a 40 something I just want to walk the dog and listen to podcasts. 18-40 was the time for the high life. My passions were partying, fancy hotels, days/nights out, clothes and performance cars (I had 30 or 40). Planning for when things will be utopian at sone point in the future is a guaranteed recipe for disappointment and divorce. 
 

I don't think anyone is planning for a utopian future, rather taking steps to maximise the chances they will have more choices as they enter middle aged.

I've seen many people saying it's the most stressful time of your life with young kids, elderly parents and being at the peak of your career. I don't mind putting in longer hours now to give myself the option (but not the requirement) to take a step back and work less then when I have other, more important, responsibilites.

4 hours ago, coprolite said:

This is superficially reasonable. 

Except the bit in bold.

Getting returns from passive investment is only possible because of the exploitative power relations in the economy that allow business owners to capture the larger part of the surplus from workers' labour. That's then compounded by the tax system in our country being biased towards capital o er labour and taxing returns to labour excessively. 

If you want to defer your consumption until you are to old to enjoy it that's up to you. 

But don't pretend it's some anti establishment rejection of consumerism. It's "if you can't beat em join em" 

Couldn't agree more of the tax system being biased, there is no justification on taxing capital gains less than employment income. You would expect some proper wealth tax is inevitable (although those with wealth and power are very succesful at stalling it thus far).

But there's no easy way you can avoid contributing to the capitalist system. Either you spend all your money and you are the exploited employee. Or maybe you save some but keep it in the bank or don't invest it - the bank is still using that money to lend to others (and giving you negligable interest). It seems the only way to escape this, if you were saving at all, would be to keep the money under your bed. And even then in spending the money you are still part of the explotaitive capitalist system.

So beyond rejecting money entirely and living in a convent, it's hard to not be part of this system. And in my view, and people like Michael Moore would disagree on this, it's not any worse investing in ETFs than it is holding the money in your current account. In one case you are investing in companies, in the other the bank is lending it to companies and giving you no interest. It's not better, just different.

And I've never said it's anti establishment, anti consumerism is a positive thing in its own right (whether you are purusing FIRE or not).

I would suggest if you don't have to work aged 50, and can be retired more than your working life, you are kinda beating the system.

The other aspect of FIRE that I didn't touch on is its absence at levels of society. It was mentioned by someone earlier that some very rich people struggle to pay their bills and in my experience this is couldn't be more accurate. One of the excellent ESPN documentaries covers the post retirement lives of athletes and it's shocking how many of them quickly go bankrupt (thing are better now and it's down to only 16.7% of NFL players after 12 years of retirement). These are pretty much all millionaires and they manage to lose it all quite quickly. It's even worse in boxing - the sums Mike Tyson lost are legendary but pretty much all boxers go broke (being punched in the head for a living won't help).

And it's not limited to sports, I know colleagues who earn 6 figures and can't do certain things until payday. Of course they are welcome to spend their money how they like, but they will need to stay in a high pressure job to sustain that lifestyle. I also work in a cyclical industry, there will be undoubtedly be many more redundancy rounds in future - I've had the fear before and I don't want to have it again.

When watching something like Narcos I'm always wondering why the dealers don't quit and be multi millionaires before they get killed or get sent to prison. Maybe it's just a mindset I have. I do understand the drive to excel in your field (drug dealer or corporate world) but I want it to be a choice, not a necessity to keep up at certain lifestyle.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Satoshi

[scottsdad]

43 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You must be pleased you have a few derby games to look forward to next season.

Will your 3 sided council owned ground be big enough for these two rival supports?

I’ve forgotten who our rivals are anymore as they have not been in the top league since the late 80s. @virginton probably was not even a glint in his faithers eyes it’s that long ago.

Oh look. How good is that Falkirk, Dunfermline, and Morton all relegated the same season from the top league 1987-88.

It isn't news to me, or to any Falkirk fan, that we are currently shite. Or that we have been shite in the past. 

I'm not sure where you're hoping to go by slagging off how Falkirk managed in 1988

[SuperSaints1877]

52 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

It isn't news to me, or to any Falkirk fan, that we are currently shite. Or that we have been shite in the past. 

I'm not sure where you're hoping to go by slagging off how Falkirk managed in 1988

You clearly can’t read.

The 1988-89 table was in reference to the last time Morton were in the top league. It just so happened that two posters who have been slagging me on this topic were Dunfermline and Falkirk fans. IIRC this was at a time when your club were overspending on players rather than upgrading Brockville. 

Now you don’t even own your own stadium. Karma ya bas.

I must say I’m loving seeing your club struggle. 

Last year Falkirk were six points clear in League One, odds-on for the title. Ultimately after a final day 2-0 defeat at Airdrie, they finished fifth in the final standings with hopes of automatic promotion passed up and their route via the play-offs gone.

Were your players involved in a betting scandal similar to Morton?

Falkirk stadium should be demolished and social housing built as it’s obviously not being best used for fitba.

 

[SuperSaints1877]

@virginton dishes out as many red dots as his team threw away points in the Morton collapse in season 03/04 when they were 12 points clear at the top of the table, but a spectacular collapse saw them finish in fourth place - 11 points behind the eventual champions. 

Forever in our shadow you lowlife.  

[beefybake]

2 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You must be pleased you have a few derby games to look forward to next season.

Will your 3 sided council owned ground be big enough for these two rival supports?

I’ve forgotten who our rivals are anymore as they have not been in the top league since the late 80s. @virginton probably was not even a glint in his faithers eyes it’s that long ago.

Oh look. How good is that Falkirk, Dunfermline, and Morton all relegated the same season from the top league 1987-88.

 

 

16 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You clearly can’t read.

The 1988-89 table was in reference to the last time Morton were in the top league. It just so happened that two posters who have been slagging me on this topic were Dunfermline and Falkirk fans. IIRC this was at a time when your club were overspending on players rather than upgrading Brockville. 

Now you don’t even own your own stadium. Karma ya bas.

I must say I’m loving seeing your club struggle. 

Last year Falkirk were six points clear in League One, odds-on for the title. Ultimately after a final day 2-0 defeat at Airdrie, they finished fifth in the final standings with hopes of automatic promotion passed up and their route via the play-offs gone.

Were your players involved in a betting scandal similar to Morton?

Falkirk stadium should be demolished and social housing built as it’s obviously not being best used for fitba.

 

Somewhere else for this please.  Your ruining the thread for those who in some form are interested in the subject,

and also for those who genuinely disagree.

Edited March 16, 2022 by beefybake

[SuperSaints1877]

21 minutes ago, beefybake said:

 

 

Somewhere else for this please.  Your ruining the thread for those who in some form are interested in the subject,

and also for those who genuinely disagree.

Fair point. I’ve originally offered my personal experience and knowledge along with free resources. I would have offered much more, but when it was pointed out to me that I had been scammed out of all my investments I was red dotted by these weird fcukers. Imagine kicking a man when he was down? Strangely they offered no advice or alternatives. 

It would have been good to have a discussion and learned something new, but it seems that for the critics it’s easier to use the terms like “cults” and “scams” to describe what is essentially living a debt free life alongside DIY passive investing.

I never use Independent Financial Advisors to manage my financial affairs.

If anything is a scam, then take a look at the fees involved in some of these simple actions. It’s never been as easy to consolidate pensions. Imagine paying someone £5000 and then enabling them to “manage” your pension ongoing for a % annual fee.

 

[Arch Stanton]

2 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Oh look. How good is that Falkirk, Dunfermline, and Morton all relegated the same season from the top league 1987-88.

 The last time they were there.

[Shandon Par]

Simple advice from a 40 something is that the peak time to be a human is probably 17-40. If you spend these years not going out (when you could afford to), not travelling, and not throwing yourself into what life has to offer then you’re missing out. These experiences simply are not the same as an older person. 
 

I could probably be sitting as a millionaire but I’d still be 44. My muscles would still be on their way out. I’d still be going grey, I’d still be lacking the energy I had even 10 years ago. 
 

Depriving yourself on the basis that things will be better when.. is a real recipe for mental anguish. Sorry to use a boxing analogy but so often you hear fighters who achieve their goal yet inside feel flat and empty and can’t understand why they feel flat. That maybe shows how today is as important as tomorrow. All the money and freedom in the world doesn’t make up for things like loss and heartbreak.

There is a cultishness to this FIRE as you’re following a path that can lead to you missing out on so much of what life has to offer. Crack on by all means but you may hit a point where you realised you’ve wasted the best years of your life.

[scottsdad]

1 hour ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

It just so happened that two posters who have been slagging me on this topic were Dunfermline and Falkirk fans.

 

I assume you mean me here - when did I slag you off?

[Shandon Par]

5 hours ago, 101 said:

You don't need to save up because you can charge based on the vulnerability of your customers 

I tried an Instagram ad last year and it still spooks me at how accurate it was in terms of delivering a certain type of customer. One tiny ad/post boost brought something like a 2000% return and if you described one client from the ad you’d be describing all four or five, right down to their clothes and various other things. 
 

They all had their full faculties thank you very much you cheeky swine!

[renton]

4 hours ago, coprolite said:

Definitely at the Fezziwig's party stage. 

You can tell it's bullshit because of the reference to the pub. He'd be hiding in the toilet whenever it was his turn for the round...

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

You can tell it's bullshit because of the reference to the pub. He'd be hiding in the toilet whenever it was his turn for the round...

Not only was he there, but people spoke to him.... 

[SuperSaints1877]

16 minutes ago, renton said:

You can tell it's bullshit because of the reference to the pub. He'd be hiding in the toilet whenever it was his turn for the round...

13 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Not only was he there, but people spoke to him.... 

After literally thousands of posts combined thought you two might have come up with something original. 

 

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, Shandon Par said:

Simple advice from a 40 something is that the peak time to be a human is probably 17-40. If you spend these years not going out (when you could afford to), not travelling, and not throwing yourself into what life has to offer then you’re missing out. These experiences simply are not the same as an older person. 
 

I could probably be sitting as a millionaire but I’d still be 44. My muscles would still be on their way out. I’d still be going grey, I’d still be lacking the energy I had even 10 years ago. 
 

Depriving yourself on the basis that things will be better when.. is a real recipe for mental anguish. Sorry to use a boxing analogy but so often you hear fighters who achieve their goal yet inside feel flat and empty and can’t understand why they feel flat. That maybe shows how today is as important as tomorrow. All the money and freedom in the world doesn’t make up for things like loss and heartbreak.

There is a cultishness to this FIRE as you’re following a path that can lead to you missing out on so much of what life has to offer. Crack on by all means but you may hit a point where you realised you’ve wasted the best years of your life.

Good post, and I agree with all but the last sentence.

I do all the things you describe above, you don't have to be a monk to want to pursue FIRE.

Go and have fun, travel, experience everything you can. The research is clear that experiences provide much more long lasting happiness than the initial buzz you get from purchasing a new ikea table (or whatever). So I max out the former, and try to avoid the latter.

If you're in your 40s and have to work 70 hours a week to fund your lifestyle I would suggest you are wasting the best years of your life (when you have young family). Not suggesting this applies to people on this thread, but it's incredibly common in the corporate world. 

And the best time to be alive is a teenager, everything you feel is much more potent (positive and negative). Fascinating how our brains evolve to become more stable and boring.