Why were we so shite for so long?

[Lex]

1 minute ago, HalfCutNinja said:

No they weren't. Australia were the worst team at the WC, and got out of their group with a Scottish league select. Scotland are quite decent these days, it's just incredibly difficult to qualify from UEFA. 

Iran were, bizarrely, ranked 20th in the world going into the tournament. Scotland are better than them.

Australia literally beat Denmark in the process of knocking them out

Iran beat Wales, who qualified ahead of us in our playoff path.  Bizarre arrogance tbh.

[HalfCutNinja]

16 minutes ago, Lex said:

Australia literally beat Denmark in the process of knocking them out

Iran beat Wales, who qualified ahead of us in our playoff path.  Bizarre arrogance tbh.

I know. It's almost as if the result of a one off game is irrelevant. Anyone who thinks Australia are a better team than Denmark is a fuckin idiot. Look at their players. Denmark are excellent. Australia are jobbers. Do you think Jason fucking Cummings, four Hearts players, one from St Mirren and one from Dundee United would get in the Denmark squad? 

I didn't say Wales are better than Iran. I said Scotland are. But ultimately we all know you're a self loathing Tory weirdo who only ever posts to make some variation of 'Scotland are shite' comments so can be roundly ignored for the freak you are

[Lex]

49 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

I know. It's almost as if the result of a one off game is irrelevant. Anyone who thinks Australia are a better team than Denmark is a fuckin idiot. Look at their players. Denmark are excellent. Australia are jobbers. Do you think Jason fucking Cummings, four Hearts players, one from St Mirren and one from Dundee United would get in the Denmark squad? 

I didn't say Wales are better than Iran. I said Scotland are. But ultimately we all know you're a self loathing Tory weirdo who only ever posts to make some variation of 'Scotland are shite' comments so can be roundly ignored for the freak you are

It wasn’t a one off game. Australia were above Denmark before the game kicked off, having beaten Tunisia - which Denmark had failed to do. They then won the game fairly comfortably and sent the Danes home humiliated and bottom of the group. 

Still, quite the meltdown you’ve had here. You think we’d have done better than Denmark at the World Cup, after Denmark won our qualifying group comfortably? 
If Scotland are better than Wales - which I think you’re saying - why do they keep qualifying for tournaments when we can’t? 

[HalfCutNinja]

17 minutes ago, Lex said:

It wasn’t a one off game. Australia were above Denmark before the game kicked off, having beaten Tunisia - which Denmark had failed to do. They then won the game fairly comfortably and sent the Danes home humiliated and bottom of the group. 

Still, quite the meltdown you’ve had here. You think we’d have done better than Denmark at the World Cup, after Denmark won our qualifying group comfortably? 
If Scotland are better than Wales - which I think you’re saying - why do they keep qualifying for tournaments when we can’t? 

You're a self loathing Tory weirdo. There's no point engaging you. You only ever post to say how shit Scotland is because you're a freak.

For anyone else reading I would advise a quick glance at the squads of Australia and Denmark and the vast difference between the two will be immediately apparent.

[Lex]

43 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

You're a self loathing Tory weirdo. There's no point engaging you. You only ever post to say how shit Scotland is because you're a freak.

For anyone else reading I would advise a quick glance at the squads of Australia and Denmark and the vast difference between the two will be immediately apparent.

The meltdown continues. Are you still pretending to be a professional footballer?

You’re making the common mistake of looking at a list of player names and judging a team solely on that. Denmark have better players, Australia are a better team. Which is why they beat them and then finished five points ahead of them in their group.  

[HalfCutNinja]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

The meltdown continues. Are you still pretending to be a professional footballer?

You’re making the common mistake of looking at a list of player names and judging a team solely on that. Denmark have better players, Australia are a better team. Which is why they beat them and then finished five points ahead of them in their group.  

No they aren't. That's why Denmark got to the semis if the Euros 18 months ago. You're a self loathing freak. I pity you.

 

[Satoshi]

10 hours ago, Clown Job said:

Our World Cup record is pretty horrific when you consider the number of “World Class” players we apparently had back in the day 

Source

 

Our world cup qualification record is excellent when compared to nations of a similar size.

Anyone care for a charity bet Scotland will have a better record than Wales in the next 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

Their brief time in the sun is over and they will go back to being absolutely dreadful for the foreseeable future.

Australia aren't good but will usually qualify and win the odd game. Good for them. You'd have to be absolutely mental to want to swap their group of players for ours.

 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Scotland would have stunk up the World Cup just as much as Wales did tbh.

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Scotland would have stunk up the World Cup just as much as Wales did tbh.

Yep, we'd have struggled Vs Iran and USA. 

[Richey Edwards]

1 hour ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Scotland would have stunk up the World Cup just as much as Wales did tbh.

I'd settle for us qualifying for the fucking thing. If we stink it up then so be it.

[Clown Job]

9 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Our world cup qualification record is excellent when compared to nations of a similar size

No it’s pretty shite 

We haven’t qualified in over 20 years and when we did qualify we have only won 4 games in our history 

[ICTChris]

As per ots of previous posts, I think that poor management is a big part of why we were so shit for many years.  Vogts had a tough gig taking over from Brown and a team that was pretty old (average age in last meaningful Brown era game was 30) but Vogts was still very limited and the team never looked natural.  Smith and McLeish were good managers who organised a fairly solid group well and were unlucky not to get to a tournament.  Burley and Levein were appallingly bad managers, you just have to look at our record under them to see that.

Clarke is a manager who you can have confidence in to organise the team and understand the players he has at his disposal.  He probably has a better group than most of his predecessors since 2001 but I doubt any of them would have had the success he's had.

ETA - there are loads of reasons of course, I can't really say what comes above or below what in terms of impact.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by ICTChris

[Satoshi]

20 hours ago, Clown Job said:

No it’s pretty shite 

We haven’t qualified in over 20 years and when we did qualify we have only won 4 games in our history 

Incorrect, we have qualified for 9 world cups.

Care to mention any nation of 5 million people or less who have qualified for more? I can think of one - Uruguay. Can you think of any others?

We have a far better qualification record than many significantly larger nations.

[Clown Job]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

Incorrect, we have qualified for 9 world cups.

Care to mention any nation of 5 million people or less who have qualified for more? I can think of one - Uruguay. Can you think of any others?

We have a far better qualification record than many significantly larger nations.

It’s been over 20 years since we last done it 

Do you understand how long that it? 

Who cares about others, I only care about Scotland and when it comes to it we have a poor record of qualifying and a poor record in the tournament itself 

 

 

[HalfCutNinja]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

It’s been over 20 years since we last done it 

Do you understand how long that it? 

Who cares about others, I only care about Scotland and when it comes to it we have a poor record of qualifying and a poor record in the tournament itself 

 

 

The set up is deeply unfair to Europe though and that makes it so difficult for us. Australia are fucking shite and have qualified for five WC's in a row. Do you know how good we'd have to be to do that? It's basically impossible for them not to qualify.

It's deeply, deeply unfair and UEFA should be outraged about it and banging on about it all the time. UEFA is discriminated against for being good.

[Clown Job]

Just now, HalfCutNinja said:

The set up is deeply unfair to Europe though and that makes it so difficult for us. Australia are fucking shite and have qualified for five WC's in a row. Do you know how good we'd have to be to do that? It's basically impossible for them not to qualify.

It's deeply, deeply unfair and UEFA should be outraged about it and banging on about it all the time. UEFA is discriminated against for being good.

That doesn’t explain our awful record within tournament football

The Australians achieved more in this tournament than we ever have… they actually qualified for the next round 

[HalfCutNinja]

5 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

That doesn’t explain our awful record within tournament football

The Australians achieved more in this tournament than we ever have… they actually qualified for the next round 

Nope. They qualified for the last sixteen. We've done that several times.

[KirkieRR]

Last time we qualified was the first time Croatia qualified.

 

They are smaller than us and have done rather well.

 

The likes of Slovenia and Slovakia have qualified for tournaments this century. So have chuffing Iceland. And Ireland.

 

Size and population were never a proper excuse and Croatia have blown it out of the water.

[Satoshi]

2 hours ago, Clown Job said:

It’s been over 20 years since we last done it 

Do you understand how long that it? 

Who cares about others, I only care about Scotland and when it comes to it we have a poor record of qualifying and a poor record in the tournament itself 

 

 

So literally being the second best country of our peer group in terms of qualification isn't good enough for you?

9 times - covered on other threads but it's substantially more than our rivals. Indeed, it's substantially more than many of our rivals put together. It's more than Wales, ROI and NI combined.

It's an excellent record for our country our size.

Our recent record for qualifying for the world cup hasn't been great (although the dry spell far less than what Wales endured). It's incredibly difficult for a nation our size to qualify from the European section - virtually no one does it consistently and bigger nations also frequently miss out. The expansion helps a little but for a 32 team tournament two playoff spots and one qualification per 4 tournaments is a realistic, stretching target.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Satoshi

[MrWorldwideJr]

15 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

So literally being the second best country of our peer group in terms of qualification isn't good enough for you?

This is just yet another case of you identifying a single statistic, stripping it of any context and then acting as if it provides the final word on a complex issue when it clearly doesn't.

As an example, Croatia obviously have a far better qualification and tournament record than us. They just haven't existed as a country for long enough to compete in 9 World Cups so they are down as behind us by your metric.