Can we ever imagine a Scotland without the Old Firm?

[Jacksgranda]

41 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

No I don't realise that.

Hardly surprising, it's like panning for gold trying to sift the nuggets of sense from the pish he posts.

[AB1872]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

Hardly surprising, it's like panning for gold trying to sift the nuggets of sense from the pish he posts.

I’ll give you that but the pish keeps me amused. You diddies are a sensitive bunch but fun all the same 

But if you sift you’ll see I do genuinely want a fairer deal for those in the top division 

If the money is split more evenly among fewer clubs everyone’s a winner. 
 

Lower league clubs will get a deal with BBC at some level. The more ambitious clubs will be able to go up the pyramid as Ross County have and Cove and Kelty will. 
 

There is relatively good money to be made by selling to away fans as Livi have and St Mirren are now doing. It makes no sense to lock out supporters who want ink

It won’t take much for Hearts or Aberdeen to make really decent money in the group stages of Europa / Conference 

[kingjoey]

9 hours ago, AB1872 said:

 

Clubs have to make more effort to maximise finances and a start would be to try and sell out more games. 

 

 

It’s all very well to sit there smugly saying that more clubs should sell out more games, when fans turn up at your home ground expecting to win, and most weeks do win. If Rangers were, say, in the league position of Motherwell or St Mirren do you think that Ibrox would sell out their home games? To get the answer, go back to home crowds at Ibrox in the early 80s. 

[Thenorthernlight]

https://www.fitbastats.com/rangers/club_records_league_attendance.php
 

the definition of glory hunting 

[bennett]

50 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The broadcaster prepared to pay to show the OF teams playing, has no real commitment to our game.  Your redundant quote just confirms that.

 

Without you guys, we'd get something else.  Even if it's worth less money, it'll be worth something and its distribution can be fairer. 

The current TV deal is worth less to non-OF sides than you seem to imagine.

 

Could always bring back Scotsport. 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

Could always bring back Scotsport. 

 

Fine by me Bennett, if it was accompanied by the departure of your favourites and their sister club.

[Thenorthernlight]

11 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

Could always bring back Scotsport. 

 

childhood memories.

Sunday afternoon just after Glen Michael’s cartoon cavalcade 

[AB1872]

28 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

It’s all very well to sit there smugly saying that more clubs should sell out more games, when fans turn up at your home ground expecting to win, and most weeks do win. If Rangers were, say, in the league position of Motherwell or St Mirren do you think that Ibrox would sell out their home games? To get the answer, go back to home crowds at Ibrox in the early 80s. 

Rangers were still the best supported team in the early 80s. OK Celtics attendance figures were laughable.

I remember those days very well. Hearts nearly filled whole Broomloan. Aberdeen, Thistle and Killie all more or less filled Broomloan front

I was at the midweek game at Pittodrie when there was the snowball fight in the Beach End.  We had to drive through a blizzard there and back 
 

Great days when you could PATG even into Old Parkhead for Old Firm. 
 

All changed when Souness arrived and the glory hunters came back. 

[big al]

On 07/04/2022 at 15:26, AB1872 said:

Aye the Old Firm is the problem in a country the size of Scotland having 42 ‘Senior’ clubs. 
 

Four clubs in Angus

Four or is it 5 clubs in Fife

Two clubs in the same street FFS

Rangers and Celtic bring 90% of the money into the Scottish game but it’s their fault other clubs play in front of empty stadiums every week

 

Deary me 

[SuperSaints1877]

9 minutes ago, AB1872 said:

Rangers were still the best supported team in the early 80s. OK Celtics attendance figures were laughable.

 

Bullshit

https://www.fitbastats.com/rangers/club_records_league_attendance.php

 

[kingjoey]

9 minutes ago, AB1872 said:

Rangers were still the best supported team in the early 80s. OK Celtics attendance figures were laughable.

 

Ok, here’s a few Ibrox league attendances from 1980/81;

Airdrie      12,200

Kilmarnock        8,488

Morton    7,000

St Mirren      10,000

Hearts        9,770

1981/82

Airdrie    8,000

St Mirren    6,000

Dundee     8,500

 

 

 

 

 

[AmericanFan]

9 hours ago, ahemps said:

The MLS has a wage structure and it still attracts players. It has found its level and I think the wage caps are moving up the way so they will continue to attract better players year on year.

Sort of. Each team can pay 3 players whatever they want and it doesn't count against the cap, which is currently $5 million. It's why David Beckham went to LA from Barcelona a decade or so ago and was making $8 million a year while some of his teammates were making $30K.

Miami last year had two guys making $6 million.

[AmericanFan]

9 hours ago, ahemps said:

Does any other basketball league offer comparable wages to the NBA? I'm guessing their wage cap is still way more than any other league can afford?

This might need a long answer but what is the difference in the wage cap structures between the US sports?

Not really, but some guys can go play in Spain, France or Russia and make $1.5 million or so, which is slightly above the league minimum.

These aren't exact and are just off the top of my head, but they're basically right:

NFL has a hard salary cap of $210 million.

NBA has a soft salary cap of $112 million with taxes levied at teams who go over a certain number. But the "Bird rights" exemption allows teams to sign their own player -- assuming they've been with the team for at least 3 years -- for a hell of a lot more money than anyone else can and not have a lot of that money count against the cap. It's why Steph Curry can make $45 million and the Warriors still have a good team.

MLB has a soft salary cap of $220 million with teams who exceed it getting taxed at various rates. But there's no floor, so some teams like the Pirates, A's and Orioles can have payrolls around $50 million. The players have failed to realize they need to bargain for a salary floor in CBAs.

[Trackdaybob]

Ugly sisters fans "Oh we're all for a more competitive league"

Right up until it is and all of a sudden they're no winning all the time.

Both cess pits emptying quicker than a nuns first curry. 

[AB1872]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

Ok, here’s a few Ibrox league attendances from 1980/81;

Airdrie      12,200

Kilmarnock        8,488

Morton    7,000

St Mirren      10,000

Hearts        9,770

1981/82

Airdrie    8,000

St Mirren    6,000

Dundee     8,500

 

 

 

 

 

I know. I was probably at most of them and the following Xmas I got my first season ticket. A Rover ticket where you could either go in Copland or Govan / Cenetenary stand. 

[kingjoey]

6 hours ago, AB1872 said:

I know. I was probably at most of them and the following Xmas I got my first season ticket. A Rover ticket where you could either go in Copland or Govan / Cenetenary stand. 

So did you mean that you were the best supporter of the team rather than the team was the best supported?

[IrishBhoy]

On 07/04/2022 at 16:48, lubo_blaha said:

What a day it was when plucky (quadruple treble winning) Celtic upset the odds against (Championship side) Hearts. A true underdog story for the ages.

The fact that 40 odd thousand people will turn up every fortnight or so to watch a team put together with £40 odd million quid, playing a team with an annual wage budget of about £1.5 million, and celebrate the victory like the two teams are competing on anything like an even playing field, is always sad to see. I also remember during Brendan Rogers time, when PSG spanked them 7-0, and the first line trotted out was that PSG have such an unfair financial advantage that Celtic simply can’t compete. It’s funny they never think of that when they are 6-0 up against St Mirren bouncing about the stands singing Just Can’t Get Enough.
 

It applies to Rangers as well, but in my experience it’s Celtic fans that are more likely to act as if they have just pulled 11 guys off the street, overcoming every obstacle in their way to win a game of football. The transfer fees paid for Kyogo, Starfeldt, Abada, Juranovic and Giakkoumakis would cover most Premiership teams annual wage bill for three or four seasons. 

[IrishBhoy]

21 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

We're all in the same boat in that our teams won't win the league, but we've got about a better chance of maybe winning a cup.

And when one of those teams you mention do win a Scottish or League cup, it’s celebrated by the fans in a way that the Old Firm could only achieve by winning a European trophy. When St Mirren won the league cup the fans and players were still out celebrating days later, Hibs fans were the same after the Scottish Cup win, as I’m sure were Kilmarnock, St Johnstone fans etc after their wins. I’ve been in the pub after Rangers and Celtic have won leagues and Scottish Cups, and guys who were at the game come back for a few pints and head up the road before it gets dark. 
 

Its like watching a race where one team competes in a Formula 1 car and the rest are in go-karts, but the stands are full of fans cheering on the Formula 1 car. When inevitably the F1 car wins the fans cheer for a bit, knowing in the back of their head they should never get beat, but still happy to bask in the glory of a victory, however meaningless it may be. In the corner of the stand there’s a small group of fans cheering on the go-karts, and they turn up every week watching on in the hope that one time they will defy the odds and win. When that win does eventually come they celebrate wildly, and savour it because they’ve sat through all the defeats and goading from the F1 fans that cheered every hollow victory week after week. That’s basically what supporting the OF is like, imo. 

[throbber]

25 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

The fact that 40 odd thousand people will turn up every fortnight or so to watch a team put together with £40 odd million quid, playing a team with an annual wage budget of about £1.5 million, and celebrate the victory like the two teams are competing on anything like an even playing field, is always sad to see. I also remember during Brendan Rogers time, when PSG spanked them 7-0, and the first line trotted out was that PSG have such an unfair financial advantage that Celtic simply can’t compete. It’s funny they never think of that when they are 6-0 up against St Mirren bouncing about the stands singing Just Can’t Get Enough.
 

It applies to Rangers as well, but in my experience it’s Celtic fans that are more likely to act as if they have just pulled 11 guys off the street, overcoming every obstacle in their way to win a game of football. The transfer fees paid for Kyogo, Starfeldt, Abada, Juranovic and Giakkoumakis would cover most Premiership teams annual wage bill for three or four seasons. 

Celtic fans act like they have triumphed against all the odds and Rangers fans act like they have won because they are inherently the best the gene pool has to offer.

The sad reality is that young people are going to be taken in by the old firm fixture rather than supporting their local teams. Imagine being a child late 90’s/early 00’s and seeing the players on display for both teams seeing Celtic get to the UEFA cup final and the title races going down the wire with such hysterical fan bases on each side. It’s pretty difficult to criticise impressionable youngsters for being taken in by it all when you look at what the alternatives were.

[SuperSaints1877]

The bigot brothers are a cancer not just to our football game but also in our society. 

The other clubs should join up and create a new league without them. 

Let them play each other every week.