League Placing Records - From Split introduction (2000-01 Season)

[Kapowzer]

Deleted original thread as it was mostly pointing out errors and no debate.

I compiled this and put in in the Aberdeen New Manager thread when Glass got punted when Jimmy Calderwood was mentioned. He got the gig with the Dons in the summer of 2004. Since that first version, at the request of others on that thread I added in other teams. I wasn't going to include anyone who'd been down to the 4th tier as it skews the figures but would have been churlish to Livi who've done well of late. If I did it for them then under duress, I have to do it for a certain other club.

I also went back 4 years to the start of the split in 2000/01, which allowed Hearts to overtake my own club into kinda 3rd/4th place due to 2x 5th's and 2x 3rd's at the turn of the century.

You can see trends where combinations of bad governance, out of depth management, poor recruitment and occasionally bad luck had a detrimental effect on your club. Outwith the OF, only 3 teams have finished 2nd, 2 have never got top 6.

A few things stand out for me on a first look, only three teams have always maintained top league status. St Johnstone's average over the past 12 years is remarkable. My own team splits city clubs with 4x higher gates and you'd expect revenues. Aberdeen have failed to get top 6 in over a third of the seasons. Hearts have always bounced back immediately from the Championship, elongated stays for Hibs and Dundee United really hurt their stats. Killie could very well have leapfrogged Hibs if they managed to hold onto Steve Clarke (and if your Maw had baws she'd be yer Da).

Caveats:

When collating stuff like this there will be errors, none are intentional. Apologies to supporters of teams such as Dunfermline, Falkirk and Partick as you've all spent time in the top league in the last 22 years. If any of you supply me with the numbers I'll fire them in.

I did think about the issue of a 4th place finish in the Championship (16th overall) which after two playoffs cold result in that team then playing to win promotion over the 11th placed team. Do I then promote them to 14th as the playoffs could be considered a mini-league, felt like too much work, especially when each placing is worth about 0.05 to the average.

Of course there could be asterisks all over the place concerning, points penalties, pandemics, stadiums having no seats, creative accounting and being fly with biscuit tins. So I didn't bother apart from one. Most will know your own clubs rollercoaster and that of the rest of the league too. This is also purely league performance and I'd personally give up a few higher places for a sniff of silverwear in the past 22 years.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Kapowzer

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

My own team splits city clubs with 4x higher gates and you'd expect revenues.

Motherwell are a remarkably well-run club. You only have a genuinely bad season about once every 10 - 15 years. Fan-owned now, too, of course. Top stuff.

Another thing that stood out for me is the improvement in league placings of both St Johnstone and Aberdeen after Derek McInnes became their manager. 

For Livi, the improvement from 2016 coincides with John Ward becoming chairman.

[ATLIS]

Geuninely astounding to see us come back from that to where we are now.

Rangers you would've expected it to happen with the budget available to them but a club like Livi going from the bottom tier to the top within 10 years is ridiculous.

Good post the only black mark on it is the 'Livvy' instead of 'Livi'  

[Kapowzer]

7 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Geuninely astounding to see us come back from that to where we are now.

Rangers you would've expected it to happen with the budget available to them but a club like Livi going from the bottom tier to the top within 10 years is ridiculous.

Good post the only black mark on it is the 'Livvy' instead of 'Livi'  

Column width not able to accommodate "Meadowbank" .... however fixed

[Kapowzer]

20 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Motherwell are a remarkably well-run club. You only have a genuinely bad season about once every 10 - 15 years. Fan-owned now, too, of course. Top stuff.

Another thing that stood out for me is the improvement in league placings of both St Johnstone and Aberdeen after Derek McInnes became their manager. 

For Livi, the improvement from 2016 coincides with John Ward becoming chairman.

Was the turn of the century league placings fuelled by lottery winnings?

[Guest]

Just now, Kapowzer said:

Was the turn of the century league placings fuelled by lottery winnings?

While that original rise through the leagues was obviously due to benefactors, I think the lottery guy came in later, once the club was already in the top tier and shortly before the 2004 bust. 

 

21 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Good post the only black mark on it is the 'Livvy' instead of 'Livi'

Hadn't thought of that before, actually. Now that I do, I'm fine with a Livvy spelling. Same word.

[Phillips455]

2002 to 2003 was a funny year in retrospective. Nor during that time but with rose tinted glasses and about 20 years in between it is something you can laugh at.

[Kapowzer]

Just now, Phillips455 said:

2002 to 2003 was a funny year in retrospective. Nor during that time but with rose tinted glasses and about 20 years in between it is something you can laugh at.

The Brockville Bonus

[Ric]

The split is a farce, an artificially introduced "money spinner" that goes against the idea of a meritocratic league.

[TheScarf]

10 minutes ago, Ric said:

The split is a farce, an artificially introduced "money spinner" that goes against the idea of a meritocratic league.

But, but, but….we can’t have any ded rubberz!!!!1

[MrWorldwideJr]

9 minutes ago, Ric said:

The split is a farce, an artificially introduced "money spinner" that goes against the idea of a meritocratic league.

There's a whole other thread, started by yourself as it happens, where you can go to discuss the merits of the split if you want to rather than ruining this one.

An opportunity for you to actually be on topic for once if you're willing to take it.

[Ric]

Just now, MrWorldwideJr said:

There's a whole other thread, started by yourself as it happens, where you can go to discuss the merits of the split if you want to rather than ruining this one.

You mean don't discuss the split in a thread that is dedicated to.. *checks notes* ..the split?

 

[welldaft]

15 minutes ago, Ric said:

The split is a farce, an artificially introduced "money spinner" that goes against the idea of a meritocratic league.

Now I may be miles oot here. But fan from a team that has never finished top half complaining about the split. 

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Now I may be miles oot here. But fan from a team that has never finished top half complaining about the split.

How dare you, and especially after @MrWorldwideJr had specifically told nobody to discuss the merits of the split. They will be very annoyed with you.

[Mark Connolly]

That table is a lot of work just to remind everyone that St Mirren are hilariously shite

[AJF]

14 minutes ago, Ric said:

You mean don't discuss the split in a thread that is dedicated to.. *checks notes* ..the split?

 

With all due respect, this thread isn’t dedicated to the split. It’s subject is league placings, with the only relevance to the split being that the starting period begins from when it was was introduced.

[Ric]

21 minutes ago, AJF said:

With all due respect, this thread isn’t dedicated to the split. It’s subject is league placings, with the only relevance to the split being that the starting period begins from when it was was introduced.

You might want to re-read that, as it makes no sense. The thread isn't dedicated to the split, but the league placings based on the split?

Look, people can complain all they want but all I said was it's a farce and nothing more. If people genuinely want to discuss this without mentioning the actual context, then they really should avoid throwing salt and I won't reply to them.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

With all due respect, this thread isn’t dedicated to the split. It’s subject is league placings, with the only relevance to the split being that the starting period begins from when it was was introduced.

Maybe it would help if the timeframe was redefined as “Since Craig David last had a UK number one single”

[AJF]

11 minutes ago, Ric said:

You might want to re-read that, as it makes no sense. The thread isn't dedicated to the split, but the league placings based on the split?

Look, people can complain all they want but all I said was it's a farce and nothing more. If people genuinely want to discuss this without mentioning the actual context, then they really should avoid throwing salt and I won't reply to them.

It does make sense. The thread title hypothetically could’ve been “League Placing Records - From The Turn of the Millennium (2000-01 Season)”. That doesn’t make it a thread about the millennium, it’s still a thread about league placings.

The only context of the split here is to define when the OP’s records started from. It’s not a discussion about the merits of the split at all.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

45 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

That table is a lot of work just to remind everyone that St Mirren are hilariously shite

It ironically reminds us that given that St Mirren appear to be Scotland's natural 11th club they are the chief beneficiaries of the expansion of the top flight from 10 to 12 that the split enabled

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by topcat(The most tip top)