Homer Thompson Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Jesus , what is it with people on here . I repeat once , repeat twice and again that it would be handy to have someone tall and decent in the air . Now , this does not mean I am advocating getting a Holmer mark 2 and punting every single ball we have to him . This would mean having an outlet or a plan B. One good long ball can achieve the same as a multiple passing move but get there far quicker . I don't know how many have noticed but we play in the Scottish Championship not the EPL. We are not likely often to see a fifteen pass move started from our full back worked all the way into our opponents box. Brannigan's problem was that he used Holmes exclusively but I am not suggesting that . Clark was very decent in the air and we could do with another striker with some ariel ability. Lyle and Reilly are easily as good in the air as Clark. Playing direct balls, as you seem to be describing, is fine - we did it last year with a lot of success. However, playing that way doesnt need anyone "tall". That kind of play is far more effective if the balls are played into the channels for a pacey striker to run on to, or played into the strikers feet or chest where he can control them and bring others into play quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Cannot believe people on here are looking for a big target man. They are few and far between and a big difference betwenn playing one and him being effective. Short memories - REMEMBER DEREK HOLMES?. Agree playing ball on ground is way to go but all too often as few have mentioned we play square o worse backwards and a promising attack peters out with ball back with defenders. Yes we have retained ball but you have to take a chance. I also feel we don't hit ball first time or quick enough in and around the box and taking a touch is more important. Dobbie was excellent at hitting the ball early Would that be the Derek Holmes who scored a hat-trick against Inverness Caledonian Thistle at Inverness in the season they won promotion to the Premier League as well as scoring and setting up goals for others that season. Perhaps "target man" is not the right description for the type of player we need but someone with a bit of height and physical presence would benefit the team as it seems to be the tactic to hit high balls up to the lone striker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Would that be the Derek Holmes who scored a hat-trick against Inverness Caledonian Thistle at Inverness in the season they won promotion to the Premier League as well as scoring and setting up goals for others that season. Perhaps "target man" is not the right description for the type of player we need but someone with a bit of height and physical presence would benefit the team as it seems to be the tactic to hit high balls up to the lone striker. It would indeed be him and is also the very same man who was absolutely awful beyond that one season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Would that be the Derek Holmes who scored a hat-trick against Inverness Caledonian Thistle at Inverness in the season they won promotion to the Premier League as well as scoring and setting up goals for others that season. Perhaps "target man" is not the right description for the type of player we need but someone with a bit of height and physical presence would benefit the team as it seems to be the tactic to hit high balls up to the lone striker. Except that really isnt the tactic at all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 LYLE AND REILLY ARE EASILY AS GOOD IN THE AIR AS CLARK. Playing direct balls, as you seem to be describing, is fine - we did it last year with a lot of success. However, playing that way doesnt need anyone "tall". That kind of play is far more effective if the balls are played into the channels for a pacey striker to run on to, or played into the strikers feet or chest where he can control them and bring others into play quickly. If I were a betting man I would happily wager an MP's salary that in challenges for high balls Reilly would lose out to a tall defender nine times out of ten. His strength is not in the air but his speed and ability to take people on with the ball at his feet. High ball to him are mostly wasted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It would indeed be him and is also the very same man who was absolutely awful beyond that one season. Agreed, but he was only one of several players who struggled the following season in a poor team under poor management. Except that really isnt the tactic at all Perhaps not a tactic as such but there are plenty of occasions during the game, goal-kicks, the keeper clearing pass-backs, defenders clearing their lines, when the high ball outlet is used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishyeltz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Would beg to differ. ES Clydebank played for one season 64/65 after which Shire moved back to Falkirk for 65/66. Clydebank then played in the reserve league for a couple of years. Third Lanark went out of business at the end of 66/67 and Clydebank were elected and played the 67/68 season. Ferranti had one good cup run in the early 70's including a game against Partick at Firhill which I was at with a Thistle supporting mate. About that time it was decided to bring the numbers in the old second division up to 20 and despite much better claims from Highland League clubs Ferranti were elected. They were essentially just a works team with no fans and so had to change their name and move ground to Meadowbank. Queens were one of many who voted for them citing easier travel as a reason. Pretty shameful really imo. I tip my hat off to you Willea, you obviously ken your fitba better than me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIEA Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I tip my hat off to you Willea, you obviously ken your fitba better than me. I was there my man. I remember all that stuff. Cannae mind what happened last week tho 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Lyle and Reilly are easily as good in the air as Clark. Playing direct balls, as you seem to be describing, is fine - we did it last year with a lot of success. However, playing that way doesnt need anyone "tall". That kind of play is far more effective if the balls are played into the channels for a pacey striker to run on to, or played into the strikers feet or chest where he can control them and bring others into play quickly. Clark ? . Very easy to over hit balls playing directly down the channels as you put it. Ideally , a taller and younger version of Lyle - wherever that may be - could take the ball high and flick it on to the wingers or fellow forward , taking the pace or 'sting ' off the ball. Paton , Russell and Carmichael would thrive on a quick knock down the flanks . It would certainly give these guys a better chance of running away from their markers and onto a loose ball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If I were a betting man I would happily wager an MP's salary that in challenges for high balls Reilly would lose out to a tall defender nine times out of ten. His strength is not in the air but his speed and ability to take people on with the ball at his feet. High ball to him are mostly wasted. I never said his strength is in the air. I said he is as good in the air as Lyle or Clark. Most high balls to anyone are wasted, thats why its an outdated tactic that no, self respecting, manager adopts anymore Agreed, but he was only one of several players who struggled the following season in a poor team under poor management. Perhaps not a tactic as such but there are plenty of occasions during the game, goal-kicks, the keeper clearing pass-backs, defenders clearing their lines, when the high ball outlet is used. True, and sometimes theres no option but to play the ball long. Thats totally different to deliberately employing a "target man" and playing that way on purpose. We should be focussing on not having to resort to long balls Clark ? . Very easy to over hit balls playing directly down the channels as you put it. Ideally , a taller and younger version of Lyle - wherever that may be - could take the ball high and flick it on to the wingers or fellow forward , taking the pace or 'sting ' off the ball. Paton , Russell and Carmichael would thrive on a quick knock down the flanks . It would certainly give these guys a better chance of running away from their markers and onto a loose ball. Yes, Clark. You said "Clark was very decent in the air and we could do with another striker with some ariel ability." For all the criticism of McIntyre this season, he is trying to get the team to get the ball down and pass. If you look around the division, most other sides are doing the same, as is most of the football world. Knocking long balls up to a big striker has, thankfully, been consigned to the football history books 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happysouth Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The problem as I see it with our passing style is the movement (or lack of it) off the ball. Especially in the final third we are far to static. In the st mirren game up there we had several attacks that just seemed to stop because the players were standing (and i mean literally standing) along the edge of the box. The werent moving into space or 'dragging' defenders with them, they were just standing there. This meant that the queens player with the ball (usually russell or burns) had few options but to try and retain possesion (usually unsuccessfully) or resort to a weak cross that was mopped up by the bigger defenders. This has happened in nearly every game ive seen this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The problem as I see it with our passing style is the movement (or lack of it) off the ball. Especially in the final third we are far to static. In the st mirren game up there we had several attacks that just seemed to stop because the players were standing (and i mean literally standing) along the edge of the box. The werent moving into space or 'dragging' defenders with them, they were just standing there. This meant that the queens player with the ball (usually russell or burns) had few options but to try and retain possesion (usually unsuccessfully) or resort to a weak cross that was mopped up by the bigger defenders. This has happened in nearly every game ive seen this season. This. Very much this. The times we've played well and scored goals there has been movement up front, with the strikers dropping off to make themselves available for passes and the wide men pulling full backs wide. Its one of the reasons Id like to see Russell play up front as I think he would give more of the kind of movement happysouth is talking about. I think its also one of the reasons we looked better with Paton playing off the striker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) I never said his strength is in the air. I said he is as good in the air as Lyle or Clark. Most high balls to anyone are wasted, thats why its an outdated tactic that no, self respecting, manager adopts anymore True, and sometimes theres no option but to play the ball long. Thats totally different to deliberately employing a "target man" and playing that way on purpose. We should be focussing on not having to resort to long balls Yes, Clark. You said "Clark was very decent in the air and we could do with another striker with some ariel ability." For all the criticism of McIntyre this season, he is trying to get the team to get the ball down and pass. If you look around the division, most other sides are doing the same, as is most of the football world. Knocking long balls up to a big striker has, thankfully, been consigned to the football history books Ok , just one more time I will say this MrX. I think the long ball is a good option - with the right man of whom we have not got at the moment - to have ALONG with our pitter patter, lose the ball after seven passes football. Lets hope this finally sinks in. Edited December 18, 2013 by JRS LEFT PEG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broony88 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) I agree with Jr here, we play a lovely passing game at times but majority of the time it gets us nowhere. When pressing St Mirren we were hoofing it up to Danny, this happened at least 5 or 6 times and guess what he won none. If we signed a mobile target man ideal. Edited December 18, 2013 by Broony88 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Ok , just one more time I will say this MrX. I think the long ball is a good option - with the right man of whom we have not got at the moment - to have ALONG with our pitter patter, lose the ball after seven passes football. Lets hope this finally sinks in. It sank in some time ago, I understand exactly what you're saying. I just happen to disagree. We should be looking to bring in players who suit the style of play the manager wants to use. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) and I think Kevin Dz has the potential to pick out such a person with his range of passing . McShane can hit a long pass as well ( don't laugh , yes he can) Where do we get this guy ? Goodness knows but McIntyre will probably bring in at least one in the new year and very possibly a forward. Edited December 18, 2013 by JRS LEFT PEG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happysouth Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I agree with Jr here, we play a lovely passing game at times but majority of the time it gets us nowhere. When pressing St Mirren we were hoofing it up to Danny, this happened at least 5 or 6 times and guess what he won none. If we signed a mobile target man ideal. Or...dont play the smallest player on the pitch in that position? Carmichael hasnt been great this season but if he is to be played it has to be on the wing. The few times he went out wide in that game he actually created chances for us. The fact that he was played 'in the hole' in the first place, coupled with the fact we still kept hitting high balls to him says more about the managers tactical prowess and the teams lack of direction than anything else imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Mentioning signing a tall striker, capable in the air seems to have the same shock, horror impact akin to someone saying they eat babies in their spare time . Will have to tread carefully with that one in the future on here . Mr X , I meant Reilly ? and not Clark ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Mentioning signing a tall striker, capable in the air seems to have the same shock, horror impact akin to someone saying they eat babies in their spare time . Will have to tread carefully with that one in the future on here . Mr X , I meant Reilly ? and not Clark ? You meant "Reilly was good in the air"?? Is he not anymore? I dont think you need to be quite so sensitive about being disagreed with 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 How come we got on ok without a target man last season and yet playing in a better league we now seemingly need one? The type of fotball we played last season would have been fine in this division. The only reason we apparently need new players is because the manager has made the team ineffective. Replace Clark with Russell and play the same way as last season is all we need to do. And this has been the case since the season started. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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