Who will be the next permanent manager of the Conservatives?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

21 minutes ago, Fletcher23 said:

It is you that is playing with words and taken a turn of phrase out of context Asim. 

A once in a generation opportunity means exactly what it says. 

Again I asked you "if you can find it written anywhere that a referendum has to be once in a generation or, indeed, any time scales put forward for how often referenda can happen feel free to post them."

It's plainly obvious the use of the term in the white paper pertains to the idea that the opportunity may not arise again. Not that it can only be a generational opportunity. If you want to pretend otherwise feel free to embarrass yourself publicly by letting us all think you have poor reading comprehension

But well done on completely side stepping the part about the Smith Commission. 

 

[GiGi]

3 minutes ago, Fletcher23 said:

The cost of independence would be a lot more than the cost of leaving the EU.

What did leaving the EU cost and what would Scottish independence cost? 

[Fletcher23]

1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Again I asked you "if you can find it written anywhere that a referendum has to be once in a generation or, indeed, any time scales put forward for how often referenda can happen feel free to post them."

It's plainly obvious the use of the term in the white paper pertains to the idea that the opportunity may not arise again. Not that it can only be a generational opportunity. If you want to pretend otherwise feel free to embarrass yourself publicly by letting us all think you have poor reading comprehension

But well done on completely side stepping the part about the Smith Commission. 

 

I respectfully disagree Asim. There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. 

[HTG]

12 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Why are people comparing the cost of the two referendums?  It's obviously going to be more expensive to run a UK wide one rather than a Scottish only one.

Because one of these trolls was rabbiting on about spending £20m on a referendum (which is in the mandate of the majority parties in Scotland) during a cost of living crisis whilst ignoring the fact that a significant amount is money was spent on the EU referendum at a time when we were still in "austerity". On their own, the cost of each is irrelevant and probably proportional but if it's being thrown about as a reason not to have Indy2 then it should be challenged. 

[Fletcher23]

5 minutes ago, GiGi said:

What did leaving the EU cost and what would Scottish independence cost? 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/03/independence-could-cost-scotlands-economy-11bn-a-year-forecast-suggests

[AsimButtHitsASix]

4 minutes ago, Fletcher23 said:

I respectfully disagree Asim. There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. 

Dunno. That's twice now ye've quoted me and failed to read the part about the Smith Commission. Maybe it's an attention span issue rather than reading comprehension. 

[Fletcher23]

Just now, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Dunno. That's twice now ye've quoted me and failed to read the part about the Smith Commission. Maybe it's an attention span issue rather than reading comprehension. 

He said in the future. I agree with him that in the future if the majority of Scots want another referendum we should have one. Not until a generation has passed though.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, Fletcher23 said:

He said in the future. I agree with him that in the future if the majority of Scots want another referendum we should have one. Not until a generation has passed though.

Hate to be the one to break it to you but, as that report came out in the past, we are now in the future. In fact it was three general elections ago, each of which the SNP have won available seats at a landslide. They've also won two Scottish elections in landslides in that time.  Won, by far, the biggest vote share in the council elections and also were the biggest part in the European election. Seeing as there is nothing written anywhere stating referendums should be generation shouldn't the seven electorate victories for the party promoting a second independence referendum not be a barometer for wanting another referendum as opposed to grasping onto a stock phrase used by an ex-politician nearly a decade ago?

[Duries Air Freshener]

11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Again I asked you "if you can find it written anywhere that a referendum has to be once in a generation or, indeed, any time scales put forward for how often referenda can happen feel free to post them."

It's plainly obvious the use of the term in the white paper pertains to the idea that the opportunity may not arise again. Not that it can only be a generational opportunity. If you want to pretend otherwise feel free to embarrass yourself publicly by letting us all think you have poor reading comprehension

But well done on completely side stepping the part about the Smith Commission. 

 

You choose to take it that way because it suits your agenda.

It’s perfectly plausible to read it the way we and so many others do.

Your anger should be directed toward those who drafted the white paper.

Trying to get people to vote for separatism by telling them it wouldn’t be revisited for a generation was disingenuous at best and downright deceitful at worst.

Your mob made your bed by spouting these claims, so I’m afraid you now have to lie in it.

[Granny Danger]

At the risk of causing offence, people who argue with obvious trolls are fucking idiots.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, Snafu said:

As I suspected you won't get an answer from him over how much leaving the EU cost the UK in comparison.

£31bn according to CER

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-06-09/brexit-cost-the-uk-billions-in-lost-trade-and-tax-revenues-research-finds

I've no doubt there are other metrics or analysis that could increase or decrease that cost.  I don't ever recall seeing anything credible that states the economy has benefitted from leaving the EU although I'm sure there must be someone out there claiming such a thing.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

You choose to take it that way because it suits your agenda.

It’s perfectly plausible to read it the way we and so many others do.

Your anger should be directed toward those who drafted the white paper.

Trying to get people to vote for separatism by telling them it wouldn’t be revisited for a generation was disingenuous at best and downright deceitful at worst.

Your mob made your bed by spouting these claims, so I’m afraid you now have to lie in it.

I'm not angry. Just incredulous at people's blinkered reading styles. People must be really stupid to think it means that they are saying there can only be generational referendum. Even if they do read it that way, and believe it's plausible, they should at least be intelligent enough to understand it could be plausibly taken the other way. In which case they are denying a democratic right to self determination on the basis of their own, admittedly, personal take on a sentence rather than an objective stance. That seems remarkably selfish and self-aggrandising. 

 

[Duries Air Freshener]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

At the risk of causing offence, people who argue with obvious trolls are fucking idiots.

I hold my hands up, I used to be bad for feeding the trolls, but I’m now a lot better at just letting things go.

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I'm not angry. Just incredulous at people's blinkered reading styles. People must be really stupid to think it means that they are saying there can only be generational referendum. Even if they do read it that way, and believe it's plausible, they should at least be intelligent enough to understand it could be plausibly taken the other way. In which case they are denying a democratic right to self determination on the basis of their own, admittedly, personal take on a sentence rather than an objective stance. That seems remarkably selfish and self-aggrandising. 

 

The flip side is of course also true.  You seem to be denying the right of someone else to take it the other way.

[Duries Air Freshener]

13 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I'm not angry. Just incredulous at people's blinkered reading styles. People must be really stupid to think it means that they are saying there can only be generational referendum. Even if they do read it that way, and believe it's plausible, they should at least be intelligent enough to understand it could be plausibly taken the other way. In which case they are denying a democratic right to self determination on the basis of their own, admittedly, personal take on a sentence rather than an objective stance. That seems remarkably selfish and self-aggrandising. 

 

Well I don’t see how it can be taken any other way, Asim.  It seems obvious to me that the author(s) meant what they said.

Perhaps we have different grasps on the English language.

At the end of the day, referenda to break up a country are huge events, especially when the country is as significant as ours.

From Yell to Fontwell and Whitley Bay to Tigers Bay, I love the place and it’s people. That may mean nothing to you, but it’s the way I am.  I don’t want constant referenda.

[Fletcher23]

51 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Hate to be the one to break it to you but, as that report came out in the past, we are now in the future. In fact it was three general elections ago, each of which the SNP have won available seats at a landslide. They've also won two Scottish elections in landslides in that time.  Won, by far, the biggest vote share in the council elections and also were the biggest part in the European election. Seeing as there is nothing written anywhere stating referendums should be generation shouldn't the seven electorate victories for the party promoting a second independence referendum not be a barometer for wanting another referendum as opposed to grasping onto a stock phrase used by an ex-politician nearly a decade ago?

I respectfully disagree with you Asim and I wont change my stance that we should not have a referendum until 2044.

[Fletcher23]

44 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

I hold my hands up, I used to be bad for feeding the trolls, but I’m now a lot better at just letting things go.

The old troll line again as we have a different opinion to them which they do not like. 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

40 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

From Yell to Fontwell and Whitley Bay to Tigers Bay, I love the place and it’s people. 

And you would love them less if they were split into two nations rather than one? Suddenly Gateshead having a different foreign policy to Coatbridge would see your love for them diminish?

11 minutes ago, Fletcher23 said:

I respectfully disagree with you Asim and I wont change my stance that we should not have a referendum until 2044.

Not asking you. No-one is. You have your weirdly specific timelines for referenda. Have yer opinion. I'm just pointing out that it's based on fucking nonsense.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

54 minutes ago, Left Back said:

The flip side is of course also true.  You seem to be denying the right of someone else to take it the other way.

Not at all. They can take it that way if they want. No-one is denying anyone from taking a clearly subjective opinion from a statement (the fact the person who made that statement has clarified the meaning doesn't seem to matter to them either weirdly).

I am not denying anyone to make up whatever definition they want. However, even if I was, I'm not denying them the right to self determination based on prejudiced viewpoint. Different thing altogether. 

[Fletcher23]

1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

And you would love them less if they were split into two nations rather than one? Suddenly Gateshead having a different foreign policy to Coatbridge would see your love for them diminish?

Not asking you. No-one is. You have your weirdly specific timelines for referenda. Have yer opinion. I'm just pointing out that it's based on fucking nonsense.

Again I disagree Asim. My opinion is a generation is 30 years. I do not think that is based on nonsense at all.