How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[DUFC_]

Stadium pipe dreams and new social clubs.

And our attendances being reasonable, even better than a lot of European clubs. How are those business's worth four/five times as much, in smaller towns and cities with apparently less support? They have a better product. They get better TV money. The leagues are not tiny and unfair.

Bizarre would be defending a product that has been proven to be inferior countless times.

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, DUFC_ said:

Stadium pipe dreams and new social clubs.

And our attendances being reasonable, even better than a lot of European clubs. How are those business's worth four/five times as much, in smaller towns and cities with apparently less support? They have a better product. They get better TV money. The leagues are not tiny and unfair.

Bizarre would be defending a product that has been proven to be inferior countless times.

You're using plurals there. One pipe dream and one social club, whilst ignoring every single other example I gave. Why?

Our game could be doing better, but new stadiums is not the reason it isn't.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

You're using plurals there. One pipe dream and one social club, whilst ignoring every single other example I gave. Why?

Our game could be doing better, but new stadiums is not the reason it isn't.

He doesn't appear to know what point he's struggling to make.

 

He's certainly missing the main one.

[DUFC_]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

You're using plurals there. One pipe dream and one social club, whilst ignoring every single other example I gave. Why?

Our game could be doing better, but new stadiums is not the reason it isn't.

You seem fixated on this stadium comment, its a sign of growth and investment. Recent events will have had a huge impact on both the Camperdown development and the Aberdeen beach project. No comment about the massive discrepancy between clubs values here and in Europe.

 

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

He doesn't appear to know what point he's struggling to make.

 

He's certainly missing the main one.

Patter is vapid.

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, DUFC_ said:

Patter is vapid.

It's not patter.

You're just havering about imaginary issues, while the real ones batter us over the head.

[DUFC_]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It's not patter.

You're just havering about imaginary issues, while the real ones batter us over the head.

Spoiler

Vapid.

 

[Raidernation]

Loving this thread, the hate is so strong, the absolute rage in some posts is funny.

Dick!

[VincentGuerin]

Suppose this thread the most suitable?

I hear the Swiss have looked upon our game and thought 'that's what we need' and are going to implement The Scottish System (33 games plus split) to their league.

We're trailblazers!

[LIVIFOREVER]

The split gives us diddy teams that will never win the league something to aim for, otherwise it would be a really dull affair. Post split blues for the team that finishes 6th on less points than the teams finishing 7th, and maybe 8th too, but with European places to aim for it can still give them something to play for up till the last couple of games. 

The play offs have certainly helped make the bottom end of the table exciting right to the death too.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

51 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Suppose this thread the most suitable?

I hear the Swiss have looked upon our game and thought 'that's what we need' and are going to implement The Scottish System (33 games plus split) to their league.

We're trailblazers!

Aye, but wur the pyoor laffin stoack o' yoorup, ken.

Leeg o 18 pley twice nae white fitba bates. An' get ra B teemz in ra leeg. Efter a', Sellick n ra Gerz keep the hale hing gaun.

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Aye, but wur the pyoor laffin stoack o' yoorup, ken.

Leeg o 18 pley twice nae white fitba bates. An' get ra B teemz in ra leeg. Efter a', Sellick n ra Gerz keep the hale hing gaun.

I'm pro-split and find most of the arguments against it pretty weak.

Good to see Europe finally getting in line with its greatest division.

[CambieBud]

The split itself is not the problem. It’s the boredom of playing the same teams 4-6 times every season. The lack of variety is what’s killing the game. That’s why the league should be expanded. I quite liked the idea many years ago of 18 teams, with a split into 3 6’s. At least there would then be a bit of variation 

[ahemps]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

Suppose this thread the most suitable?

I hear the Swiss have looked upon our game and thought 'that's what we need' and are going to implement The Scottish System (33 games plus split) to their league.

We're trailblazers!

Is it due to them going from 10-12 teams and keeping the games to a reasonable amount ie. 36-38 rather than 36-44?

Interestingly they initially wanted a split after 22 games then eventually a direct playoff between teams in 1v2, 3-6, and the 5th bottom for playoffs in deciding league winners, Europe

spaces and relegation. They seem to just be copying us exactly as it is now.

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, ahemps said:

Is it due to them going from 10-12 teams and keeping the games to a reasonable amount ie. 36-38 rather than 36-44?

Interestingly they initially wanted a split after 22 games then eventually a direct playoff between teams in 1v2, 3-6, and the 5th bottom for playoffs in deciding league winners, Europe

spaces and relegation. They seem to just be copying us exactly as it is now.

Aye, they've gone for what we've got. I'm not by any means a Swiss fitba expert (do we have one on the site?) but it seems from what I've read that fans were very much against the proposed play-off system.

[bdu98196]

1 hour ago, CambieBud said:

The split itself is not the problem. It’s the boredom of playing the same teams 4-6 times every season.

Even worse in the lower leagues - (theoretically) 4 times league games, League cup, Scottish cup, Challenge cup plus if you were really unlucky the play-offs which is another 2 games. Thankfully we have binned cup replays for now, but that's still a whopping potential for 9 meetings between just 2 clubs.

In 2018/19 we played Dundee Utd 7 times

[VincentGuerin]

5 hours ago, CambieBud said:

The split itself is not the problem. It’s the boredom of playing the same teams 4-6 times every season. The lack of variety is what’s killing the game. That’s why the league should be expanded. I quite liked the idea many years ago of 18 teams, with a split into 3 6’s. At least there would then be a bit of variation 

This is the part I'm not sure is as true as we often hear in this discussion.

I can only speak as a Hearts supporter, but I'd rather we had 3-4 games against Hibs, Aberdeen, and the OF per season than two each against the top six current Championship clubs.

I pay for a season ticket knowing I'm going to see quite a lot of relatively big games. How much cheaper would Hearts need to make the ST to stick at the same level of support if you said we're only playing Hibs, the OF, Aberdeen etc once but we're replacing them with games against Raith Rovers, Morton, ICT, Ayr United etc.

Does that actually make the game more interesting? And the OF's fixture list would become even more of an utter waste of time. All so a lot of sides can slosh around in some purgatory between 6th and 14th where it's all just a waste of time?

That's a pretty tough sell.

What we have just now isn't perfect, but it provides a lot of big games, and it means there are lots of competitive matches between teams in direct competition with each other. Look at the table, FFS!

I don't see how this season would be any better were the league six teams bigger.

Edited November 11, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Valentino Bolognese]

6 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

I'm pro-split and find most of the arguments against it pretty weak.

Good to see Europe finally getting in line with its greatest division.

You can't have a division without a split

[Sortmeout]

Spilt the combined season ticket money/ticket money/tv money equally across all the top flight clubs.

[HibeeJibee]

Northern Ireland also has 12 splitting 6/6 playing 33+5 and it was previously used in Jamaica. I think it was briefly used in an Eastern Europe league too.

It's now the most enduring structure in our history...

Splits are now common in Europe, ditto 3/4-times playing:


Play each other 5 times (via split)
   8 teams     27 games     Andorra     (this season may just be playing each other 4 times for 28 games with no split)


Play each other 4 times
10 teams     36 games     Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Croatia, Eire, Estonia, Georgia, Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Montenegro, Slovenia, Switzerland*
*next season Switzerland remain playing each other 4 times but increase to 12 teams with split playing 38 games

Play each other 4 times (via split)
   8 teams     24 games     Moldova
12 teams     32 games     Austria, Denmark, Slovakia, Wales
12 teams     38 games     Northern Ireland, Scotland
14 teams     36 games     Cyprus, Greece, Israel     [Cyprus: Bottom 8 play 40 games / Greece + Israel: Bottom 8 play each other 3 times for 33 games]
16 teams     40 games     Romania     [Bottom 10 play each other 3 times for 39 games]
18 teams     40 games     Belgium*
*next season Belgium remain playing each other 4 times but reduce to 16 teams still with split and still playing 40 games


Play each other 3 times
10 teams     27 games     Faroe Islands
12 teams     33 games     Bosnia & Herzegovina, Hungary, Macedonia

Play each other 3 times (via split)
12 teams     21 games     Gibraltar
12 teams     27 games     Finland, Iceland
16 teams     35 games     Bulgaria, Czech Rep     [Bulgaria: Middle 4 play each other 4 times for 36 games]
16 teams     37 games     Serbia


Play each other 2 times
14 teams     26 games     Kazakhstan, Malta
16 teams     30 games     Belarus, Luxembourg, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Sweden, Ukraine
18 teams     34 games     Germany, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal
20 teams     38 games     England, France*, Italy, Spain, Turkey*
*next season France and Turkey remain playing each other 2 times but reduced to 18 teams playing 34 games

Edited December 23, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[lubo_blaha]

Northern Ireland also has 12 splitting 6/6 playing 33+5 and it was previously used in Jamaica. I think it was briefly used in an Eastern Europe league too.

It's now the most enduring structure in our history...

Splits are now common in Europe, ditto 3/4-times playing:


Play each other 4 times
   8 teams     28 games     Andorra
10 teams     36 games     Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Croatia, Eire, Estonia, Georgia, Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Montenegro, Slovenia, Switzerland*
*next season Switzerland remain playing each other 4 times but increase to 12 teams with split playing 38 games

Play each other 4 times (via split)
   8 teams     24 games     Moldova
12 teams     32 games     Austria, Denmark, Slovakia, Wales
12 teams     38 games     Northern Ireland, Scotland
14 teams     36 games     Cyprus, Greece, Israel     [Cyprus: Bottom 8 play 40 games / Greece + Israel: Bottom 8 play each other 3 times for 33 games]
16 teams     40 games     Romania     [bottom 10 play each other 3 times for 39 games]
18 teams     40 games     Belgium*
*next season Belgium remain playing each other 4 times but reduce to 16 teams still with split and still playing 40 games


Play each other 3 times
10 teams     27 games     Faroe Islands
12 teams     33 games     Bosnia & Herzegovina, Hungary, Macedonia

Play each other 3 times (via split)
12 teams     21 games     Gibraltar
12 teams     27 games     Finland, Iceland
16 teams     35 games     Bulgaria, Czech Rep     [bulgaria: Middle 4 play each other 4 times for 36 games]
16 teams     37 games     Serbia


Play each other 2 times
14 teams     26 games     Kazakhstan, Malta
16 teams     30 games     Belarus, Luxembourg, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Sweden, Ukraine
18 teams     34 games     Germany, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal
20 teams     38 games     England, France*, Italy, Spain, Turkey*
*next season France and Turkey remain playing each other 2 times but reduced to 18 teams playing 34 games

The Croatian league has a Split as well