Detournement Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Ah well intern them then They are very fittingly going to be transported to Australia. All the "well actually it's fine to sing rebel songs" misses the mark because everyone agrees with that hence Soldier Song being played over the tannoy before the game to zero comment. Pretending the Provos were a great bunch of lads makes thinking about Ireland a lot simpler but it's not at all true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 hours ago, coprolite said: It’s cos they’re not allowed johnnies isn’t it? ...and later on: Loretta's lyrics are a reminder of what people who crow about demographic shifts based on differences in birthrates are willing to inflict on others to get what they want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Detournement said: They are very fittingly going to be transported to Australia. All the "well actually it's fine to sing rebel songs" misses the mark because everyone agrees with that... Think if you tested that out somewhere like Harthill you would quickly find out that's a dubious assertion at best. A small group of extremists murdering people to achieve political goals was just as wrong in 1916 as it was in 1968 because there were other avenues available in both eras to bring about change that would have left people less bitterly divided. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 6 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think if you tested that out somewhere like Harthill you would quickly find out that's a dubious assertion at best. A small group of extremists murdering people to achieve political goals was just as wrong in 1916 as it was in 1968 because there were other avenues available in both eras to bring about change that would have left people less bitterly divided. and wrong with regard to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in 1919. and wrong with regard to the Bangal famine in 1943. and wrong in Gibraltar in 1988. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) Who was the Indian equivalent of John Redmond and the Irish Parliamentary Party holding the balance of power at Westminster in the years immediately preceding WWI? RIP Ronnie Hill. Edited October 13, 2022 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I can just hear Eamonn de Valera ending a radio broadcast with a rousing chorus of “ooh ah up the Ra”. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 The video I saw sounded like they were singing along with that Wolfe Tones "Celtic Symphony" shite. Which is probably even worse than the actual words 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, ICTChris said: I can just hear Eamonn de Valera ending a radio broadcast with a rousing chorus of “ooh ah up the Ra”. He wasn't shy about interning and hanging them once he made it into power. Fianna Fail tended to be quietly happy with a 26 county state because they were the natural party of power in that context. Haughey and Blaney excepted obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 12/10/2022 at 16:07, Granny Danger said: I said chants like that are frequently made here and neither the club or the authorities acknowledge that it happens. That's changed significantly then since this was published 11 years ago. Also notable is how the sensibilities of Scottish authorities and Celtic aligned back then yet differed from UEFA. Of course, UEFA's view may also have changed since. We'll find out soon as they've now had the Ireland players' chants referred to them. https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/latest-celtic-news/celtic-unlikely-be-hit-hard-uefa-1651856 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 12/10/2022 at 22:15, Detournement said: They are very fittingly going to be transported to Australia. All the "well actually it's fine to sing rebel songs" misses the mark because everyone agrees with that hence Soldier Song being played over the tannoy before the game to zero comment. Pretending the Provos were a great bunch of lads makes thinking about Ireland a lot simpler but it's not at all true. Its not about whether or not its fine its about British people being constantly shocked that their view of the IRA is not what some people in Ireland think about the IRA, pre or post 68. For good or ill British people can get to f**k policing what Irish people think about themselves. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 6 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: Its not about whether or not its fine its about British people being constantly shocked that their view of the IRA is not what some people in Ireland think about the IRA, pre or post 68. For good or ill British people can get to f**k policing what Irish people think about themselves. It's not really about what people think though is it? They are an official national team being hosted by another nation. It's like the equivalent of the English national team going to Germany and doing the Dambusters in the dressing room, it's scummy behaviour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 9 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: ...For good or ill British people can get to f**k policing what Irish people think about themselves... Says a guy from Dundee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 9 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: Its not about whether or not its fine its about British people being constantly shocked that their view of the IRA is not what some people in Ireland think about the IRA, pre or post 68. For good or ill British people can get to f**k policing what Irish people think about themselves. They're entitled to think what they want. It's not thinking that's the issue. Scotland has laws that outlaw saying and singing sectarian shite and they were in Scotland. UEFA has rules about political shite and it was a UEFA event. Fairly clear jurisdiction for both here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, coprolite said: Scotland has laws that outlaw saying and singing sectarian shite and they were in Scotland. UEFA has rules about political shite and it was a UEFA event. Fairly clear jurisdiction for both here. Scotland repealed the specific law in 2018 which it previously used to "smash" the Green Brigade (the "smash" thing is a police quote from the article I linked in previous comment). There's maybe still another law that could be applied to the Ireland players for their chant here, though, I don't know. Previous UEFA administrations were fine with IRA chants as they didn't consider them discriminatory. Ceferin became president in 2016 and soon changed UEFA's approach from "no discriminatory political messages" to a stricter "no political messages". This was under pressure from Russia with Gazprom being the main Champions League sponsor. Germany were then banned from lighting the Allianz Arena with LGBT rainbow colours when playing Russia-allied Hungary and Ukraine had to alter the map of Ukraine on their shirts to remove Crimea. Ceferin and UEFA have now cut all ties with Russia since the Ukraine invasion, though, so maybe UEFA have now changed back to the more lenient "no discriminatory political messages". How they judge on this Ireland players' chant case might tell us. Edited October 14, 2022 by FreedomFarter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Seems there’s no such thing as bad publicity! iTunes charts UK: 'Pro-IRA' song Celtic Symphony climbs chart after Irish women's team backlash https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/national/uk-today/23047955.itunes-charts-uk-pro-ira-song-celtic-symphony-climbs-chart-irish-womens-team-backlash/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said: Scotland repealed the specific law in 2018 which it previously used to "smash" the Green Brigade (the "smash" thing is a police quote from the article I linked in previous comment). There's maybe still another law that could be applied to the Ireland players for their chant here, though, I don't know. Previous UEFA administrations were fine with IRA chants as they didn't consider them discriminatory. Ceferin became president in 2016 and soon changed UEFA's approach from "no discriminatory political messages" to a stricter "no political messages". This was under pressure from Russia with Gazprom being the main Champions League sponsor. Germany were then banned from lighting the Allianz Arena with LGBT rainbow colours when playing Russia-allied Hungary and Ukraine had to alter the map of Ukraine on their shirts to remove Crimea. Ceferin and UEFA have now cut all ties with Russia since the Ukraine invasion, though, so maybe UEFA have now changed back to the more lenient "no discriminatory political messages". How they judge on this Ireland players' chant case might tell us. Hands up, I thought sectarianism had been added to the hate crimes laws instead of the football rules but it seems that it was dropped. UEFA are clearly tying themselves in knots with the no politics rule. But it is still a rule. Personally I don’t think that the players should be charged with anything but celebrating indiscriminate mass murderers doesn’t sit right with me. Before the whataboutery crew dives in, same goes for the military wankathon at ibrox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 52 minutes ago, coprolite said: Hands up, I thought sectarianism had been added to the hate crimes laws instead of the football rules but it seems that it was dropped. UEFA are clearly tying themselves in knots with the no politics rule. But it is still a rule. Personally I don’t think that the players should be charged with anything but celebrating indiscriminate mass murderers doesn’t sit right with me. Before the whataboutery crew dives in, same goes for the military wankathon at ibrox. It was in 2012 but the Greens (unsure why) chose not to support the SNP when the other three parties ganged up to get it repealed in 2018. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) Think we are being provided with a misleading narrative above: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-europe-celtic-idUKTRE7BC0XE20111213 Sport December 13, 2011 3:26 PM Updated 11 years ago Celtic accept UEFA fine for fans' pro-IRA chants By Reuters Staff 1 Min Read (Reuters) - Celtic will not appeal against a fine imposed by UEFA for “illicit chanting” at last month’s Europa League match against Rennes in Glasgow, the Scottish League club said on Tuesday. UEFA’s control and disciplinary panel fined Celtic 15,000 euros (12,700 pounds) on Monday for pro-Irish Republican Army (IRA) chanting during the 3-1 win over the French side on November3.... Edited October 14, 2022 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think we are being provided with a misleading narrative above: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-europe-celtic-idUKTRE7BC0XE20111213 Sport December 13, 2011 3:26 PM Updated 11 years ago Celtic accept UEFA fine for fans' pro-IRA chants By Reuters Staff 1 Min Read (Reuters) - Celtic will not appeal against a fine imposed by UEFA for “illicit chanting” at last month’s Europa League match against Rennes in Glasgow, the Scottish League club said on Tuesday. UEFA’s control and disciplinary panel fined Celtic 15,000 euros (12,700 pounds) on Monday for pro-Irish Republican Army (IRA) chanting during the 3-1 win over the French side on November3.... Not intentionally misleading. The Scotsman article I found suggested the opposite. Thanks for correction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 6 hours ago, coprolite said: Scotland has laws that outlaw saying and singing sectarian shite and they were in Scotland. Wasn’t sectarian and Scotland regularly hold anti catholic marches -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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