The Official ‘Hi-Risk Anus PM’ Clusterfuck Thread

[Florentine_Pogen]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/04/suella-braverman-chinook-home-secretary-priti-patel

"Closer to home, an awful lot of complex things clearly need to be done in a system overrun by chaos and distress. Who’s going to do them? Suella?! Er, I don’t think so. Speaking in the blunt style I know she’d appreciate: Suella Braverman is an extremely low-calibre secretary of state. She’s not the sort of person you put in charge of anything you actually want to fix. Oh, she’s most definitely a mood/a vibe/a pose. She may be very good at positioning herself as a populist – but operationally, she’s toxic, and about as much use as getting Ralph Wiggum to do something. Her sole previous cabinet experience was as Boris Johnson’s attorney general, a role with all the prestige of being Donald Trump’s STD doctor. Or, indeed, Donald Trump’s attorney general. In Whitehall, Braverman was known during this period as someone who could be easily managed by more competent members of the Johnson team into giving the advice that was required."

[picklish]

I've worked in the private healthcare sector (multiple different clinics/hospitals in London) and my experience of it is that it's lipstick on a pig. The equipment is often old and ex-NHS, as private places don't have the same economies of scale. The staff aren't necessarily qualified, and the turn over is like McDonalds. The pay was often bank staff, so the morale was terrible, and people would leave to join the NHS whenever they could.

However, they spend money on nice rooms and receptions, make sure they have good looking receptionists and have time to not rush patients. It's only the quality of healthcare that's worse, but who needs to worry about that when you get your own room and free coffee?

[Dawson Park Boy]

12 minutes ago, picklish said:

I've worked in the private healthcare sector (multiple different clinics/hospitals in London) and my experience of it is that it's lipstick on a pig. The equipment is often old and ex-NHS, as private places don't have the same economies of scale. The staff aren't necessarily qualified, and the turn over is like McDonalds. The pay was often bank staff, so the morale was terrible, and people would leave to join the NHS whenever they could.

However, they spend money on nice rooms and receptions, make sure they have good looking receptionists and have time to not rush patients. It's only the quality of healthcare that's worse, but who needs to worry about that when you get your own room and free coffee?

Interesting take on it. Thanks.

If that’s the case, why can’t the NHS get staff?

On your scenario, the NHS should have no problem getting staff and private clinics would be shutting down.

[Brother Blades]

13 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Interesting take on it. Thanks.

If that’s the case, why can’t the NHS get staff?

On your scenario, the NHS should have no problem getting staff and private clinics would be shutting down.

NHS can’t get staff because of poor wages, long hours, stress, no appreciation etc… I’d like to remove my last point cos Boris did clap them during the pandemic. 

[GNU_Linux]

Which sector has the better machines that go ping?

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, Brother Blades said:

NHS can’t get staff because of poor wages, long hours, stress, no appreciation etc… I’d like to remove my last point cos Boris did clap them during the pandemic. 

That’s not what picklish was saying and he worked in the sector.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I had to access the Spanish health care system for routine purposes yesterday for the first time.  All very efficient and pleasant.

 

I just arrived back from Malaga on Wednesday night and I've got to say it was all very refreshing to see fully stocked supermarket shelves, fresh fruit and veg and retail and hospitality outlets that were fully staffed with competent friendly people.

It brought back memories of a time now gone from these shores......

[Melanius Mullarkey]

21 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Which sector has the better machines that go ping?

Retail.

[picklish]

There's simply so many more NHS hospitals than private clinics, so even if everyone left private to NHS, it wouldn't fill the gaps. The specialisation which I work in has a department in at least one NHS hospital in every major city in the UK. But there's only a handful of private clinics covering this - some places where unqualified people have set up practices and the lack of regulatory oversight has made it difficult to get them shut down. 

 

(and of course bank staff hours will work for some people's priorities - it did for me)

[Dink]

Of course private hospitals also get the luxury of using consultants without having to pay for their training. Whereas the NHS/Govt will pay around a million pounds to train up each consultant educated in Scotland.

[Brother Blades]

18 minutes ago, Dink said:

Of course private hospitals also get the luxury of using consultants without having to pay for their training. Whereas the NHS/Govt will pay around a million pounds to train up each consultant educated in Scotland.

Exactly! 

[Dawson Park Boy]

19 minutes ago, Dink said:

Of course private hospitals also get the luxury of using consultants without having to pay for their training. Whereas the NHS/Govt will pay around a million pounds to train up each consultant educated in Scotland.

Certainly, if an NHS consultant goes abroad or goes wholly private after only a short period in the NHS then I’m all for a clawback.

However, as I said earlier, if they are fulfilling their NHS contract obligations there should be no barrier to them doing private work.

Thats only fair.

[Guest Jedi]

3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

23 hours ago, Jedi said:

 

Without full fiscal autonomy a Scottish Government of any political colour would have to implement cuts.

No doubt....its the part where 'with' full fiscal autonomy that Andrew Wilson, Nicola Sturgeon et al, want to still implement deep cuts that is more of a concern.

[Dawson Park Boy]

48 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The direct consequence is that rich people get to queue jump ahead of higher priority poor people.

Is it fair that health care should be based on your personal wealth rather than need?

What your saying is that you want to live in a socialist utopia.

Life isn’t like that, not even in so-called socialist countries.

There’s always people at ‘the top of the heap’.

The only means of distributing scarce resources is through money whether that’s right or wrong.

Whether it’s food, drink, houses, cars, material possessions etc., etc the better off always have the best.

Now, you may not like this and it may go against your convictions but that’s what living in a mixed economy, capitalist country is all about.

In my own case I had to go private to restore my eyesight to be able to drive...no option. Was that wrong? To some folks, it probably was.

You've brought up a point which is basically insoluble.

This forum contains a large majority of so- called socialists but I would contend that is merely skin deep. When the crunch comes, most people, regardless of politics, social class, wealth, poverty etc., will prioritise themselves and their own families over the population at large.

Huge question you’ve posed which needs a lot of honesty and soul searching in response.

[jakedee]

Yes, and why shouldn’t they?
Its a free country and presumably they fulfil their NHS obligations.
Absolutely no reason for anyone not to do some extra work out with the NHS.
The private sector is expanding and quite a few surgeons in specialised areas have gone wholly private.
Its all down to market forces and quite correct too.
If the NHS can’t function properly, others will do so.

Absolute garbage. When I was working I would have been dismissed instantly if i was found to be doing work for a competitor, or even if doing similar work in my own time.
NHS trained staff should not be "moonlighting" for other private companies.

[Dawson Park Boy]

27 minutes ago, jakedee said:

Absolute garbage. When I was working I would have been dismissed instantly if i was found to be doing work for a competitor, or even if doing similar work in my own time.
NHS trained staff should not be "moonlighting" for other private companies.

Well, it’s perfectly legal and loads do it.

The customers are paying for the NHS and for private healthcare. Nobody would chose to do that but sometimes needs must.

Fix the NHS and there will be no need for private healthcare.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Dink said:

Of course private hospitals also get the luxury of using consultants without having to pay for their training. Whereas the NHS/Govt will pay around a million pounds to train up each consultant educated in Scotland.

Or more likely poach them from a poorer country who trained them up but can't compete with the NHS on salaries. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by welshbairn

[Billy Jean King]

The direct consequence is that rich people get to queue jump ahead of higher priority poor people.
Is it fair that health care should be based on your personal wealth rather than need?

You are basically describing DPBs ethos to life !

[sophia]

6 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I had to access the Spanish health care system for routine purposes yesterday for the first time.  All very efficient and pleasant.

 

Oh I see, I take it they used digital technology as part of your examination 

[Granny Danger]

24 minutes ago, sophia said:

Oh I see, I take it they used digital technology as part of your examination 

No, nothing analytical.