Why no InDy?

[Antlion]

Just now, Jedi said:

 

Ask nothing of the UK campaign? Er, we know what the UK model is like, as we have lived with it for so long. We know that the 'continued UK' would be more of the same in terms of their policies etc (with a Tory govt), so that kind of answers what a No vote is, does it not?

Nope. Look how much the UK can change no matter what Scotland as a nation wants. I mean, weren’t you claiming in X amount of years the UK might be back in the EU? Have you abandoned that or do you just not demand clear, time-stamped answers of a “no” vote?

[Guest Jedi]

I do love these noted 'Yoons' Alex Salmond, Alex Neil, Robin McAlpine Kenny McAskill,  et al being so clear in their new found opposition to Independece, because they aren't fans of the recent proposals of the Scot govt on the issue but are rather calling for a more wide ranging, community based approach to putting the case to the people of Scotland. I particularly enjoyed McAskill's recent 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' interview..

However because they aren't on board with Nicola presumably we can look forward to each of them lining up with tank girl in a future campaign as well.

Also 'Make Brexit work' ( we don't know what that means yet), is the same as 'we hope to rejoin the EU' (at some point,......maybe......once we have GDP/debt ratio below 3%.....maybe....10 years.....maybe less....maybe...

Edited November 4, 2022 by Jedi

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

 

Also 'Make Brexit work' ( we don't know what that means yet), is the same as 'we hope to rejoin the EU' (at some point,......maybe......once we have GDP/debt ratio below 3%.....maybe....10 years.....maybe less....maybe...

Then you presumably can’t vote for the UK or for Labour, as you’d naturally expect answers ON DAY ONE about what this will mean. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Antlion

[Guest Jedi]

Heres another wild notion..imagine 'if' the SNP leadership said..

We would expect a 2 year period following a Yes vote to negotiate the division of assets with London...

During that time we will establish a Scottish currency, which will be issued by a Scottish Central Bank..2 years will be enough time to build up reserves of foreign currency. The bank will be the govts lender of last resort.

On Day 1 we will join EFTA allowing us freer trade with Europe.This will be part of a transition to become full EU members.

We will hold a full consultation with a range of community groups across Scotland on what they see as the priorities of the new govt.

We will abolish the monarchy in Scotland.

As we are issuing our own currency we can print our own money.Although of course there are limits to public spending as the currency beds in, we will be able to properly fund our public services in the early days.

There will be no 'friction' on an English border as members.of EFTA it doesn't effect the current arrangements.

All weird notions..but things which many across different platforms, blogs social, media are also calling for 

That, to me, ticks every box, nails unionist objections and presents a much rosier picture for a wider range of people 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Jedi

[Billy Jean King]

MA PENSHUN !!!

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Not really. Just one that is looking for a more radical vision of Independence to start being sold by the current SNP leadership, to ensure that the arguments look irresistible to as wide a section of Scottish society as possible to carry the vote, and not just the business community. 

I may be naïve in thinking that 'but you can vote for who you like, post Indy', might not win the day on its own. 

Yet again, you’re confusing the SNP/current SG with independence. I would go as far as saying that the majority of independence supporters don’t have a particular desire to see an SNP government for longer than is necessary in an independent Scotland - perhaps 1 or 2 terms before we can have proper left, right and centre options. And, yes, maybe even the rebirth of a proper Labour Party… although they will probably have to change their name as “Labour” or even worse “Scottish Labour” is pretty toxic.

[Kenneth840]

2 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

There’s zero chance you voted Yes in 2014 & even less chance you’ll vote Yes in any future ref, you are a typical “too wee, too stupid, too poor” unionist, get a grip & look at the future outwith the UK, it’s bright! But definitely not Orange. 

Very good.

So your thread should be renamed "Those that voted yes in 2014 and have changed their mind because the SNP have fucked things"

 

[Kenneth840]

2 hours ago, scottsdad said:

I voted Yes in 2014, and will again if/when we get another go.

In the meantime, I absolutely do not subscribe to the opinion that there is no difference between Labour and the Tories. In every imaginable way the Tories are worse. We have seen data recently attributing deaths to their austerity regime, which has an undeniable cruel streak. Now we are gearing up for more of the same. 

I'd take Labour over the Tories. I'd take independence over both. 

This must be why you are comfortable voting Snp, they are so alike Labour used to be. 

[Kenneth840]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Good points @scottsdad

Here's a radical notion.....during any campaign in a future Referendum, the Yes side 'might' be asked some questions about EU membership, borders, currency, spending plans and priorities in the early days, the monarchy, the division of assets, moving Trident,.....as I say just a 'wild, radical notion'. Not sure if just replying 'but we will get the government we vote for in an Independent Scotland' in reply to every question will win the day on its own....probably wrong there though.

Another wild notion is there might be some undecided voters around (unlikely I know)....they might be wondering what the answers to these sort of questions are (again, probably not).

In 2014, the Yes campaign handled questions on all these issues well....Salmond was a formidable debater and carried a lot of the upsurge in support as a result. Also, having clear answers to these questions painted a positive future, (and starting point)......Once the current leadership of the SNP realise they they will have to try to replicate the feelgood factor rather than pandering to big business, and selling cuts to public services, promoting the monarchy, handing fiscal controls to the B of E etc, then they will be on a better footing.

Having believed in Scottish Independence since 1980, not just 2014, funnily enough I want to see a campaign which presents a future for Scotland which is so appealing (from day 1) not 10 years in, or more that it will carry the vote to well over 50%

Excellent post. 

We need Salmond or at least a Salmond like figure.

Sturgeon won't do it. 

[Kenneth840]

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

This is simply ridiculous, especially when you appear to ask nothing of the “UKOK” campaign. The absolute reality is that “Day 1” of independence won’t look or feel all that different, just as “Day 1” of dependence on 19th September looked and felt no different (though things fairly rapidly got a lot, lot worse).

Day 1 of Independence without our own currency and more importantly our Central Bank (not bank of england) will be a disater that will ruin Scotland.  The Snp plan is ridiculous and will destroy Scotland, it pains me to say that. 

[Tattie36]

22 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said:

Very good.

So your thread should be renamed "Those that voted yes in 2014 and have changed their mind because the SNP have fucked things"

 

There is literally nothing the SNP/current SG could do that would make me change my desire for independence. Thankfully I can differentiate between the two which some people seem unable to do.

[Kenneth840]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

I do love these noted 'Yoons' Alex Salmond, Alex Neil, Robin McAlpine Kenny McAskill,  et al being so clear in their new found opposition to Independece, because they aren't fans of the recent proposals of the Scot govt on the issue but are rather calling for a more wide ranging, community based approach to putting the case to the people of Scotland. I particularly enjoyed McAskill's recent 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' interview..

However because they aren't on board with Nicola presumably we can look forward to each of them lining up with tank girl in a future campaign as well.

Also 'Make Brexit work' ( we don't know what that means yet), is the same as 'we hope to rejoin the EU' (at some point,......maybe......once we have GDP/debt ratio below 3%.....maybe....10 years.....maybe less....maybe...

Jedi, I don't think I could have put it better myself.  

[Antlion]

10 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said:

Day 1 of Independence without our own currency and more importantly our Central Bank (not bank of england) will be a disater that will ruin Scotland.  The Snp plan is ridiculous and will destroy Scotland, it pains me to say that. 

Too late; being a minor region of the hard-right’s Brexit Britain has already got this well in hand.

[Kenneth840]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Heres another wild notion..imagine 'if' the SNP leadership said..

We would expect a 2 year period following a Yes vote to negotiate the division of assets with London...

During that time we will establish a Scottish currency, which will be issued by a Scottish Central Bank..2 years will be enough time to build up reserves of foreign currency. The bank will be the govts lender of last resort.

On Day 1 we will join EFTA allowing us freer trade with Europe.This will be part of a transition to become full EU members.

We will hold a full consultation with a range of community groups across Scotland on what they see as the priorities of the new govt.

We will abolish the monarchy in Scotland.

As we are issuing our own currency we can print our own money.Although of course there are limits to public spending as the currency beds in, we will be able to properly fund our public services in the early days.

There will be no 'friction' on an English border as members.of EFTA it doesn't effect the current arrangements.

All weird notions..but things which many across different platforms, blogs social, media are also calling for 

That, to me, ticks every box, nails unionist objections and presents a much rosier picture for a wider range of people 

A sensible plan. But the Snp haven't said that, would be good if they did. 

[Kenneth840]

21 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

There is literally nothing the SNP/current SG could do that would make me change my desire for independence. Thankfully I can differentiate between the two which some people seem unable to do.

They are the same. The Snp/green make up the SG atm. 

[Tattie36]

1 minute ago, Kenneth840 said:

They are the same. The Snp/green make up the SG atm. 

Well of course. Differentiate between the SNP/SG and independence is what I mean. An awful lot of people seem to think it’s one and the same.

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said:

They are the same. The Snp/green make up the SG atm. 

And it follows that voting “No” would only mean a hearty backing of the Tories’ nefarious plans for Brexit Britain. They are the same.

[Kenneth840]

The game is up. 39 voted for.

Where were the rest of them. 

Its done, over.  Our own side has killed it. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Kenneth840

[Kenneth840]

3 minutes ago, Antlion said:

And it follows that voting “No” would only mean a hearty backing of the Tories’ nefarious plans for Brexit Britain. They are the same.

Doesnt help when your own side backs out. 39 ffs. 

Doesnt fill me with confidence. 

[sophia]

5 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

Let’s list every single reason why Scotland shouldn’t be able to decide it’s own course in the world, it’s absolutely atrocious that the SSsnNNPee are advocating we have a different social & political outlook from the rUK, let’s get this sorted, down with this sort of stuff.

I’ll go first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You missed out depriving the most successful club in the world the opportunity to regale us with Rule Britannia and that is not a march I can join.