Ben Doak

[No_Problemo]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Anderson made 22 Premier League appearances for Newcastle last season though, and had well over 50 senior games under his belt.

Fair point, and I had forgotten he was about the side last season. At five starts in all competitions for Anderson last season (inc one against league two opposition) though, Doak isn’t far away from that already if he gets another one next week.

 

 

[Tartan Blood]

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Not sure if Doak will be called up for the October squad which is announced next week. His game time has been okay: 65 mins in a Europa League game and 65 mins in an EFL cup game. He is on the cusp and a particularly good period at club level would surely see him called up, but in my opinion since the September window I wouldn't say he's done enough to take someone else's place in the squad.

Liverpool play away to Tottenham which is his last chance to impress so maybe if he were to be called into the squad it would be along the lines of continuing to show there's a pathway or perhaps he might benefit from a larger squad as we have two away games and a good length between the Spain and France matches to train with the senior team.

I don't think he deserves to take anyone's squad place either. But he doesn't have to. Let's take 26 players, instead of 25 next time. Is 1 extra player that much of a burden?

If Clarke has any inclination that he might include Doak in the Euros squad, then he should really be getting him in to train with the seniors as early as possible.

[Old Bing]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Anderson made 22 Premier League appearances for Newcastle last season though, and had well over 50 senior games under his belt.

Yet hasn't created anything like the same level of interest or excitement. Theres a reason for this.

Football isn't as simple as just comparing numbers.

[craigkillie]

The post I replied to was literally making the comparison between their number of appearances.

[Jambomo]

I like Doak a lot, I think he’s going to be an excellent player but I am not sure he’s actually ready yet to get called up.

He’s had a few starts for Liverpool which is great but certainly the European game I watched, he was a bit quiet and I still think you can question his decision making and end product a bit. He hasn’t done enough yet to warrant being called up IMO. 

Obviously he’s a kid and this will certainly improve with games and training. 

 

[Tartan Blood]

On 30/09/2023 at 08:04, Jambomo said:

I like Doak a lot, I think he’s going to be an excellent player but I am not sure he’s actually ready yet to get called up.

He’s had a few starts for Liverpool which is great but certainly the European game I watched, he was a bit quiet and I still think you can question his decision making and end product a bit. He hasn’t done enough yet to warrant being called up IMO. 

Obviously he’s a kid and this will certainly improve with games and training. 

 

The more games he gets, the better his decision making will get. Playing him for Scotland could aid and speed up his overall development. He would also start getting help from the Scotland coaches (if he isn't already).

With Gakpo injured and Jota suspended, he could be getting significant minutes in Europe and the EPL before the next international window. 

I'm convinced he'll be in our 26 man Euros squad. So I think we should get him in to train, at the very least, sooner rather than later.

 

[The Moonster]

I think we should just let Clarke decide (and we will of course, because none of us scallywags have authority). Robertson will be keeping Clarke well up to date and I don't see it being difficult integrating him into the squad, if his first call up is next week or next summer I'm sure it'll be the right time. 

[Richey Edwards]

Bun Dick getting closer to a Scotland call up, according to reports. 

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

54 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

Bun Dick getting closer to a Scotland call up, according to reports. 

Looks like he had another brilliant performance for the u21s.

[craigkillie]

If we've already qualified and he gets a few more minutes for Liverpool then I think he'll be in the squad next month.

[MarkoRaj]

Lots of energy and he will be a pressing machine after a season or 2 under Klopp.

Also seems to be playing more centrally for the u21s. Wonder if he could end up as a false 9 for us in the current system.

Or maybe more likely  he'll challenge Christie for the other attacking spot

[Alan Twelve]

He's very much the type of player we could really use against strong opponents - fast, a good dribbler, and difficult to dispossess; someone to keep the opposition defence sitting 10-15 metres further back which will open up a bit of space in midfield and stop us being pressed so relentlessly.

However, I don't think he'd be up to the task at present, but I'd still like him in the squad ASAP in the hope that he can do something for us in the Euros.

[Savage Henry]

3 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Looks like he had another brilliant performance for the u21s.

Considering the team’s tactics involving lumping it 50 yards for him to chase, he’s done remarkably well.  

[PrestersKTID]

Don’t see the harm having him in the squad, integrate and training with the players early.

He offers something different to what we have, with Fraser out the reckoning and Forrest probably done internationally, we don’t have any real wide attackers.

Christie does a job there though 

 

 

[RawB93]

9 hours ago, MarkoRaj said:

Also seems to be playing more centrally for the u21s.

Scottish and under 21?

Do you love running fast?

Come and play up front for Scotland MacGemmill!

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

I'll be astonished if Doak is seriously considered. The fans calling for him is wildly premature. 

He's NEVER started a league game as a professional footballer and in total in his career has played less than 45 minutes of league football. 

He's managed a total of something like 250 minutes as a professional. He's just not getting a game very much. 

No doubt a lot will claim if you're young enough you're good enough but you need to earn a call up and he's not playing enough to merit it. 10 mins here and there in the League don't merit you an international call up never mind a cap for your country. They should not be handed out like that. 

There's players available who are and should be ahead of him in selection. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by SJFCtheTeamForMe

[Alan Twelve]

10 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

I'll be astonished if Doak is even in the conversation. The fans calling for him is wildly premature. 

He's NEVER started a league game as a professional footballer and in total in his career has played less than 45 minutes of league football. 

He's managed a total of something like 250 minutes as a professional. He's just not getting a game very much. 

No doubt a lot will claim if you're young enough you're good enough but you need to earn a call up and he's not playing enough to merit it. 10 mins here and there in the League don't merit you an international call up never mind a cap for your country. They should not be handed out like that. 

There's players available who are and should be ahead of him in selection. 

Which uncapped attackers do you think should be called up ahead of him? (Genuinely curious - not picking a fight!)

[MarkoRaj]

14 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

I'll be astonished if Doak is seriously considered. The fans calling for him is wildly premature. 

He's NEVER started a league game as a professional footballer and in total in his career has played less than 45 minutes of league football. 

He's managed a total of something like 250 minutes as a professional. He's just not getting a game very much. 

No doubt a lot will claim if you're young enough you're good enough but you need to earn a call up and he's not playing enough to merit it. 10 mins here and there in the League don't merit you an international call up never mind a cap for your country. They should not be handed out like that. 

There's players available who are and should be ahead of him in selection. 

How much game time had Gilmour had before he came in and cemented his place? Or Nathan Patterson?

More to the point, how much game time did 16 year old Yamal have for Barcelona before getting called up to the Spain squad?

When you're talking about potential generational talent, game time is secondary to the eye test

Anyone who has watched Doak in the limited game time he has had should be able to look at what he can do at 17 and make a judgement that he's going to have a huge future, potentially elite level.

What other uncapped players can we say that about?

[craigkillie]

Playing for Scotland isn't something you earn by working your way up some mythical ladder, where you have to have played a certain number of games at club level or meet any other criteria like before you can be considered. Fundamentally, if you are good enough to contribute something to the squad right now, then you should be in.

Doak, like Gilmour before him, is so blindingly obviously going to be a fantastic player, and I would say he'd already be playing regularly for Southampton or Luton, which are two of the clubs we're currently calling up players from in similar positions. The only question right now is whether he is physically and mentally ready, and whether it would be better for his development to be involved now, or to wait a wee while longer.

It's a matter of when, not if, for him, and I think he will be capped for Scotland within the next year if not sooner. I expect him to be in the squad for Germany as long as he keeps getting some minutes here and there for Liverpool.

[2426255]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Playing for Scotland isn't something you earn by working your way up some mythical ladder, where you have to have played a certain number of games at club level or meet any other criteria like before you can be considered. Fundamentally, if you are good enough to contribute something to the squad right now, then you should be in.

Doak, like Gilmour before him, is so blindingly obviously going to be a fantastic player, and I would say he'd already be playing regularly for Southampton or Luton, which are two of the clubs we're currently calling up players from in similar positions. The only question right now is whether he is physically and mentally ready, and whether it would be better for his development to be involved now, or to wait a wee while longer.

It's a matter of when, not if, for him, and I think he will be capped for Scotland within the next year if not sooner. I expect him to be in the squad for Germany as long as he keeps getting some minutes here and there for Liverpool.

I'm not into the hype around him, but think he has a fair chance of making the squad. That's mainly because Steve Clarke has demonstrated in particular during and since the Euros a desire to show a pathway exists for younger players. I see no reason to believe the Euro 2024 squad will take a dissimilar form to the Euro 2020 squad where places 24, 25 and 26 are given to young players such as Gilmour, Patterson and Turnbull previously. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by 2426255