Which player had the biggest drop off after the amount of potential they initially showed?

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Gary Smith.

Came into an excellent Falkirk team at CB/Sweeper/RB at 16 years old and literally strolled it. Wandering around oncoming strikers with the ball in his own 6 yard box, hardly ever needing to break into a run, such was his superb reading of the game. Every single observer of his game was 100% sure that he was going to be a superstar for club and country for years to come.

Aberdeen had previously signed defenders Stuart Kennedy and Brian Irvine from us and both obviously had excellent, long-lasting careers. So Smith went there and was... ok. Regular for a few years, suffered an unfortunate happening in a Cup Final, eventually left for Hibs after a year in France with Rennes. Hung around Easter Road for a while, quite competently before chucking it after a brief spell at the 'beath.

Not a bad career at all, by any stretch, but not what everyone predicted, and he never even got a Scotland cap.

Sent off against Hearts twice in four months, with Hearts scudding four past them on both occasions.

His shocked face at being sent off for hauling down an opponent running in on goal is still one of my favourite things about the 4-0 semi.

Edited December 28, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

He left United at 18, so the idea that by then it was too late for him to develop his game seems a hell of a shout.

I think his natural skill set was already apparent. My previous post wasn't arguing he's not a great player, I think he is. My feeling is he's always struggled with managers not wanting a player with his attributes in his role. Managers typecast players and for a "no. 8", they're often looking for athleticism and a box to box style, which isn't what Gauld gives you. 

[invergowrie arab]

22 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

Gauld is getting paid £40k/week and is a damn good player - Steve Clarke just refuses to call him up. He's more deserving than many players that get a chance.

From United, I'd go for Jamie McCunnie. After a dozen games I was convinced he'd be Scotland's right back for the next fifteen years. Instead he ended up playing in Iceland and in the junior ranks.

A leftfield choice could be Garry Kenneth (although not a great talent) - went from getting capped by Scotland to playing in the Dundee amateur leagues within a five year period.

Kenneth is the opposite here.

It's the professional career and a cap that's the weird bit.

[VincentGuerin]

18 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I think his natural skill set was already apparent. My previous post wasn't arguing he's not a great player, I think he is. My feeling is he's always struggled with managers not wanting a player with his attributes in his role. Managers typecast players and for a "no. 8", they're often looking for athleticism and a box to box style, which isn't what Gauld gives you. 

Aye, but the problem you're on about is solved quite simply by good coaching.

Ronaldo (Man Utd) wasn't a great centre-forward at 18, but developed different parts to his game. Paul Hartley wasn't a good driving midfielder at 24, but was coached to apply his attributes to become one and ended up playing at a completely different level.

It's wild to say that, based on his skill-set at 18, he didn't have a good shot at being a top player.

Edited December 28, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Guest]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

Aye, but the problem you're on about is solved quite simply by good coaching.

Ronaldo (Man Utd) wasn't a great centre-forward at 18, but developed different parts to his game. Paul Hartley wasn't a good driving midfielder at 26, but was coached to apply his attributes to become one.

It's wild to say that, based on his skill-set at 18, he didn't have a good shot at being a top player.

A popular opinion is that it was Sporting moving him back from a 10 to an 8 which curbed his attacking potential. That can happen. Their second team manager at the time may've already had a squad stacked with 10s so moved Gauld back solely to benefit the team not the player. 

This does happen, even with the afore-mentioned Anderson, he was a goalscoring 10 at Porto before becoming an 8 at Man Utd, where his attacking instincts were dulled dramatically. That followed a step up in the level he was playing at, though. Like with Gauld moving from Utd to Sporting. 

Something I can say with more confidence about Gauld is that the large Spanish and Portuguese clubs often use their second teams as farms for developing cheap foreign signings to then sell on at a profit rather than ever appear in their first team. There's Casemiro who was signed to Real Madrid Castilla and later got moved to Real Madrid but that was aided by his Castilla manager (Zidane) getting the first team job. While youth team players often pass through the second team and onto the first team at these clubs, its rare for foreign signings to do it. Gauld probably didn't know this in 2014.

[Stylish Kid]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

Sent off against Hearts twice in four months, with Hearts scudding four past them on both occasions.

His shocked face at being sent off for hauling down an opponent running in on goal is still one of my favourite things about the 4-0 semi.

I only ever associate Gary Smith with Derby Disasters. Pretty sure he also scored an OG, possibly at Easter Road....

[Insaintee]

Still amazed at the love in Dun United fans have for Gauld. He's like a less talented, light weight Stevie Mallon. 

[Dunning1874]

21 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Dunno if Rory McAllister qualifies for this, showed early potential at Inverness then dropped down to lower leagues, where he was scoring for fun at Brechin and Peterhead. Stuck with PT football to do his apprenticeship as a plumber, then was making as much money with plumbing & PT football than he would as a FT footballer, knocking back an offer from Dundee Utd. Football being a short career he pretty much had his future sorted when he was done playing football.

Seems a shame not seeing what his potential could've been had he stuck playing FT football and played in the top flight, big strong striker with plenty of goals in him. played 439 league games scoring 219 goals, and a total of 539 games scoring 278 goals.

His part-time wage from Peterhead alone was more money than he'd have gotten out of most full-time clubs, even before taking his plumbing earnings into account. He'd maybe have been a decent bottom six centre forward and probably a good Championship one - although the list of centre forwards who've scored for fun in League One and not cut it in the Championship is substantial - but he certainly made the right choice financially.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

The thing is though, he could have given the top flight a go once he'd qualified, say with a minnow yoyo outfit like a Livingston or Dundee, and if it didn't really work out he would have had a few quid in the bank and his plumbing qualifications in his back pooch anyway. He would never have been short of work as a plumber. Never understood the thinking there.

[Juantwothree]

4 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Kenneth is the opposite here.

It's the professional career and a cap that's the weird bit.

Not to brag but when I played against him at school level I totally destroyed him and I was shite. Couldn't believe it when a friend of his  told me he was going to United 

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

The thing is though, he could have given the top flight a go once he'd qualified, say with a minnow yoyo outfit like a Livingston or Dundee, and if it didn't really work out he would have had a few quid in the bank and his plumbing qualifications in his back pooch anyway. He would never have been short of work as a plumber. Never understood the thinking there.

He made nearly 50 appearances for us in the top flight and never really impressed at all. He scored four or five goals but never looked like he was destined to be a starter. His best game was probably a league game against Celtic when he came in as a sub in the first minute when Dennis Wyness dislocated his shoulder. He was really strong and direct but after that game he dropped back to being pish.

I wasn’t that surprised he was a good player in the lower leagues, he’s clearly got talent and was a good physical specimen. However, I’m not sure he’d have been as good playing in the Championship or top flight.

[ArabFC]

2 hours ago, Insaintee said:

Still amazed at the love in Dun United fans have for Gauld. He's like a less talented, light weight Stevie Mallon. 

Ryan Gauld is earning £40k/week.

Stevie Mallon plays for Salford.

[DA Baracus]

5 hours ago, ArabFC said:

Gauld is getting paid £40k/week and is a damn good player - Steve Clarke just refuses to call him up. He's more deserving than many players that get a chance.

From United, I'd go for Jamie McCunnie. After a dozen games I was convinced he'd be Scotland's right back for the next fifteen years. Instead he ended up playing in Iceland and in the junior ranks.

A leftfield choice could be Garry Kenneth (although not a great talent) - went from getting capped by Scotland to playing in the Dundee amateur leagues within a five year period.

He's a ref now! Also appeared in a Scottish Cup final for us. McCunnie that is.

5 hours ago, coprolite said:

Was Gauld not ineffective in the spl on loan at Hibs?

You'd think a player with a time machine would have been better.

Edited December 28, 2022 by DA Baracus

[coprolite]

3 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

He's a ref now! Also appeared in a Scottish Cup final for us. McCunnie that is.

You'd think a player with a time machine would have been better.

Every time 

[lubo_blaha]

2 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

Ryan Gauld is earning £40k/week.

Stevie Mallon plays for Salford.

Elon Musk earns £1mil/second but it doesn’t mean he’s any good at fitba.

Edited December 28, 2022 by lubo_blaha

[gordon9736]

On 27/12/2022 at 17:25, ConcernedReferee said:

Craig Beattie had a really promising start at Celtic - done by his mid 20's 

 

 

When he was playing CB at Elgin City a couple of seasons ago, my teenage daughter couldn't believe that he had played for some big teams and was multiple league winner. I think he was 34-35 and lasted half a season.

[DA Baracus]

7 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

Elon Musk earns £1mil/second but it doesn’t mean he’s any good at fitba.

Elon Musk also earns £0 for football though.

 

[VincentGuerin]

9 hours ago, Stylish Kid said:

I only ever associate Gary Smith with Derby Disasters. Pretty sure he also scored an OG, possibly at Easter Road....

I think you're right, but in a 2-0 win at Tynecastle.

I believe they scored two OGs. Orman maybe the other@

[Ludo*1]

12 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Gary Smith.

Came into an excellent Falkirk team at CB/Sweeper/RB at 16 years old and literally strolled it. Wandering around oncoming strikers with the ball in his own 6 yard box, hardly ever needing to break into a run, such was his superb reading of the game. Every single observer of his game was 100% sure that he was going to be a superstar for club and country for years to come.

Aberdeen had previously signed defenders Stuart Kennedy and Brian Irvine from us and both obviously had excellent, long-lasting careers. So Smith went there and was... ok. Regular for a few years, suffered an unfortunate happening in a Cup Final, eventually left for Hibs after a year in France with Rennes. Hung around Easter Road for a while, quite competently before chucking it after a brief spell at the 'beath.

Not a bad career at all, by any stretch, but not what everyone predicted, and he never even got a Scotland cap.

Even at the end of his career, we bizarrely loaned him from Cowdenbeath (after he got looked over for their managerial position according to Wiki) he completely strolled the old Division One at the end of his career and was a class act in his short period for us.

[Mark Connolly]

7 hours ago, Juantwothree said:

Not to brag but when I played against him at school level I totally destroyed him and I was shite. Couldn't believe it when a friend of his  told me he was going to United 

It shows how good Andy Webster was for us for that season that he captained us to a cup win AND dragged Kenneth to inexplicably being capped

edit for spelting

Edited December 29, 2022 by Mark Connolly