Every other top flight manager - top 2 with Celtic or Rangers?

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 14/04/2023 at 15:26, Greenlantern said:

Correct.
The alternative being, support a non-Glasgow club and wear that enteral chip on your shoulder like a huffy wee teenager.

Patrick Thistle , premiership team

[Jinky67]

19 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

No seriously though? I'm sure we had the whole 'always winning is boring' conversation before but surely to f**k it is  Do you even celebrate when you lift the league trophy anymore? Or does everyone kind of just shuffle about like "oh yay, another one", we'll see this again in 12 months anyway. 

If Livi won the league I genuinely think I'd be pished for about 3 weeks. 1 Livi title is far more exciting to anyone in world football than the next 50 Celtic titles could ever be. 

That’s your opinion but you are making an assumption without ever having experienced it but continually disregard the opinions of people who have that doesn’t make sense to me.

But to answer your question no it doesn’t become boring or lose its value. There are high and lows in every season and they all in someway become unique and memorable. 

 

[Dons_1988]

28 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Why do you care? We don’t seek to devalue your experience yet you seem to want to devalue ours? Is the football fan experience at your club leaving you feeling a little inadequate? 

The old firms existence has devalued the experience of supporting a team in this league for decades. Someone pointing out that wins over the likes of killie, hearts, Aberdeen and livi are really nothing to shout about is far less damaging than what is going on in Scottish football. 

Your world view on this is that of a spoilt brat. 

[Jinky67]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The old firms existence has devalued the experience of supporting a team in this league for decades. Someone pointing out that wins over the likes of killie, hearts, Aberdeen and livi are really nothing to shout about is far less damaging than what is going on in Scottish football. 

Your world view on this is that of a spoilt brat. 

You really want to do this again after last time? So much for being done with me eh

Edited April 16, 2023 by Jinky67

[ATLIS]

3 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

That’s your opinion but you are making an assumption without ever having experienced it but continually disregard the opinions of people who have that doesn’t make sense to me.

But to answer your question no it doesn’t become boring or lose its value. There are high and lows in every season and they all in someway become unique and memorable. 

 

I think the closest comparison I can get is Livi in League 2 (old Third Division) with a full time squad and guys like Halliday, De Vita, Liam Fox, McNulty, Keaghan Jacobs and Robbie Winters. Livi actually apologised to other clubs at the end of the season for being in that league and making it an uncompetitive event. 

The funny thing about that is that we won the league by 15 points. The current gap between Celtic and 3rd is 41 points... The gap between Rangers and 3rd is 29 points. I've experienced us dominating a league here and there, Championship in 2016/17 we won it by 19 points and the tail end of the season wasn't very exciting because we had just blown everyone away, the gap to third (Airdrie) being 29 points. 

If I was getting a little bored of it by the end of one season, I can barely imagine how mind numbing 25-30 would be. If we were to replay the 9/10 and 16/17 seasons straight after already doing it then I'm fairly sure I'd just get bored and give up on football.

If a low for a Celtic fan is losing to St Mirren once all season (in the league), and zero to anyone else, then I'm not surprised people from Livi go and support Celtic. Seeing us go 3-0 down by HT in consecutive weeks to St Mirren and Motherwell would have some of those folk blowing their brains out ffs  

[Trackdaybob]

7 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

Could say the same for you and your attempts to devalue any sense of achievement felt by Celtic fans. 

I don't devalue it. 

There being no competition year upon year is what devalues it. 

But keep enjoying your 'achievements' and we'll keep enjoying you getting humped in Europe year upon year. 

There. We can both enjoy it

 

 

 

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

You really want to do this again after last time? So much for being done with me eh

The last time, for various reasons that are none of your business, I lost my cool and was unnecessarily abusive. I took my medicine and apologised. 

Doesn’t meant that I don’t stand by the crux of the argument, in fact I’ve never been more convinced of it.

[Jinky67]

3 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I think the closest comparison I can get is Livi in League 2 (old Third Division) with a full time squad and guys like Halliday, De Vita, Liam Fox, McNulty, Keaghan Jacobs and Robbie Winters. Livi actually apologised to other clubs at the end of the season for being in that league and making it an uncompetitive event. 

The funny thing about that is that we won the league by 15 points. The current gap between Celtic and 3rd is 41 points... The gap between Rangers and 3rd is 29 points. I've experienced us dominating a league here and there, Championship in 2016/17 we won it by 19 points and the tail end of the season wasn't very exciting because we had just blown everyone away, the gap to third (Airdrie) being 29 points. 

If I was getting a little bored of it by the end of one season, I can barely imagine how mind numbing 25-30 would be. If we were to replay the 9/10 and 16/17 seasons straight after already doing it then I'm fairly sure I'd just get bored and give up on football.

If a low for a Celtic fan is losing to St Mirren once all season (in the league), and zero to anyone else, then I'm not surprised people from Livi go and support Celtic. Seeing us go 3-0 down by HT in consecutive weeks to St Mirren and Motherwell would have some of those folk blowing their brains out ffs  

The St Mirren loss wasn’t the low in the season to me as my expectations aren’t that we win every game but for the first time in many years we had the opportunity to play Champions League proper and we didn’t exactly cover ourselves in glory. 

I’ve been pretty upfront about what I want to see and that’s progression in Europe or what’s the point of having such sustained success domestically? 

 

[ATLIS]

4 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

The St Mirren loss wasn’t the low in the season to me as my expectations aren’t that we win every game but for the first time in many years we had the opportunity to play Champions League proper and we didn’t exactly cover ourselves in glory. 

I’ve been pretty upfront about what I want to see and that’s progression in Europe or what’s the point of having such sustained success domestically? 

 

Playing in the Champions League at all as a low is hilarious. I watched most of Celtic's games in Europe actually and don't think they did too badly. They competed as well as they could when they weren't on a financial level to rival sides like Real Madrid. I could go on and talk about that but it's pretty well trodden at this point and on the nose. 

Realistically in a competitive Scottish football there's no place for Celtic and Rangers, they've essentially outgrown Scottish football and in part that's down to finances. Success almost guarantees more success though, anyone else who could get the riches of those top 2 spots would be in a better spot to compete but there's zero chance we'll ever see that in the current form of things. 

I can imagine Celtic/Rangers fans would scoff at the idea of spending/wage caps, redistribution of funds and split gates but it's pretty much the only way to save Scottish football. I don't think anyone outside of those two clubs would say Scottish football doesn't need 'saving' from the current state. Then again, wage caps and 3 player exemptions surely would do wonders for the production of Scottish young players too which I seem to recall certain clubs were using as a defence of B teams  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ATLIS said:

No seriously though? I'm sure we had the whole 'always winning is boring' conversation before but surely to f**k it is  Do you even celebrate when you lift the league trophy anymore? Or does everyone kind of just shuffle about like "oh yay, another one", we'll see this again in 12 months anyway. 

If Livi won the league I genuinely think I'd be pished for about 3 weeks. 1 Livi title is far more exciting to anyone in world football than the next 50 Celtic titles could ever be. 

They leave games like cup finals early to beat the traffic home, tells you all you need to know about how much it actually means.

[pozbaird]

14 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Playing in the Champions League at all as a low is hilarious. I watched most of Celtic's games in Europe actually and don't think they did too badly. They competed as well as they could when they weren't on a financial level to rival sides like Real Madrid. I could go on and talk about that but it's pretty well trodden at this point and on the nose. 

Realistically in a competitive Scottish football there's no place for Celtic and Rangers, they've essentially outgrown Scottish football and in part that's down to finances. Success almost guarantees more success though, anyone else who could get the riches of those top 2 spots would be in a better spot to compete but there's zero chance we'll ever see that in the current form of things. 

I can imagine Celtic/Rangers fans would scoff at the idea of spending/wage caps, redistribution of funds and split gates but it's pretty much the only way to save Scottish football. I don't think anyone outside of those two clubs would say Scottish football doesn't need 'saving' from the current state. Then again, wage caps and 3 player exemptions surely would do wonders for the production of Scottish young players too which I seem to recall certain clubs were using as a defence of B teams  

Wage caps. League wide kit deal. Shared merchandising revenue and TV deals? New NFL season coming soon. There’s three of the reasons I love it right there. That’s before you even discuss the draft system where the shittiest team get to pick the best player.

Wouldn’t work in our football, I get that. Nice thought though for even the briefest of brief moments.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, ATLIS said:

No seriously though? I'm sure we had the whole 'always winning is boring' conversation before but surely to f**k it is  Do you even celebrate when you lift the league trophy anymore? Or does everyone kind of just shuffle about like "oh yay, another one", we'll see this again in 12 months anyway. 

Believe they all go straight onto twitter with videos to tag Rangers accounts in.

[Jinky67]

Just now, Empty It said:

They leave games like cup finals early to beat the traffic home, tells you all you need to know about how much it actually means.

You obviously weren’t at the 2019 Scottish Cup final then

[pozbaird]

Ant & Dec could lead the uglies to a 1-2 finish, but to balance that, Postecoglu would most likely be a better bet in the EPL than Super Frankie Lampard or a jobber like Dean Smith.

[Jinky67]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

The last time, for various reasons that are none of your business, I lost my cool and was unnecessarily abusive. I took my medicine and apologised. 

Doesn’t meant that I don’t stand by the crux of the argument, in fact I’ve never been more convinced of it.

I didn’t suggest it was my business tbf however you probably need to find someone else to debate it with this time around. You should know by now that I don’t really flinch but that didn’t feel too good last time for various reasons.

So I’ll take that spoilt brat cap and wear the f**k out of it

 

[Dons_1988]

9 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

I didn’t suggest it was my business tbf however you probably need to find someone else to debate it with this time around. You should know by now that I don’t really flinch but that didn’t feel too good last time for various reasons.

So I’ll take that spoilt brat cap and wear the f**k out of it

 

That’s up to you. I wouldn’t be abusive again, it’s not my style and it’s a source of embarrassment that it happened.

But here’s where we differ, you wear this not flinching thing as a badge of honour, to me that just suggests closed mindedness and partisanship. 

If you could articulate a decent reason why change isn’t needed to the fundamental structures of Scottish football and I agreed with it then I would concede it to be a decent point 

[Jinky67]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

That’s up to you. I wouldn’t be abusive again, it’s not my style and it’s a source of embarrassment that it happened.

But here’s where we differ, you wear this not flinching thing as a badge of honour, to me that just suggests closed mindedness and partisanship. 

If you could articulate a decent reason why change isn’t needed to the fundamental structures of Scottish football and I agreed with it then I would concede it to be a decent point 

You misunderstand what I mean by unflinching maybe it’s the wrong choice of wording however I take exception to being told how I should think, feel or indeed behave towards my football team by people who presume to know what it must be like without having experienced what I have. My aspirations for my team or opinions seem to count for less just because I’m a Celtic fan . I find that pretty condescending and not really a great foundation to start a debate, that’s not a specific call out towards you just a generalisation. If that’s closed mindedness then fair enough 

And to be clear I’ve never said the fundamental structure of Scottish football should remain how it is however what I’ve gotten from these debates in the past is that whilst people are genuinely interested in creating competition and closing the gap is that the only feasible way to do that is to cap what we can earn, distribute more of our revenue etc which will close a gap but also increases one to Europe and with big portions of our turnover coming from Europe impacting our ability to earn from those completions results in less to share to a point where it likely over time becomes non-existent.

Again I appreciate Europe may not be a priority for every club but it is for Celtic and Rangers fans and if you want them to engage you have to offer a solution that also affords them opportunity to grow in that space too but I’ve not seen an idea yet that does all of that with the exception of us finding a home elsewhere and then Scottish football can adopt the NFL type model many are keen on. 

So if you have a solution that closes the financial gap in Scottish Football whilst improving Scottish Clubs performances in Europe and closing in some way that particular gap then I’m happy to listen 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Jinky67

[Greenlantern]

17 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Wait do Celtic fans actually think them winning things is a 'big deal'?  Supporting Celtic is basically just putting being a football fan on easy mode. 

I have no idea who you support, but being on a football forum I can safely assume you enjoy the game. 
I would imagine our highs and lows are not too dissimilar.

I don’t think many if any Celtic supporters on this site will care if others feel the club’s achievements are insignificant. 


 

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Greenlantern said:

I have no idea who you support, but being on a football forum I can safely assume you enjoy the game. 
I would imagine our highs and lows are not too dissimilar.

I don’t think many if any Celtic supporters on this site will care if others feel the club’s achievements are insignificant. 


 

It would be a tad more significant if you did it against a bit of competition, don't you think?

 

Coming first in a two horse race when the other horse has been cloned, and looks a shadow of its former self isn't that much to get excited about really.

[LiviLion]

Life's losers desperately trying to make these things out to be "achievements" because it's the only thing that makes them feel like anything other than a, well, loser. Like when new Rangers fans/staff were demanding MORE credit for spending millions to get out of League 1 and 2.