Every other top flight manager - top 2 with Celtic or Rangers?

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

I think I’ve told you this before however I’d happily take an exit route into the English Championship as firstly it would be competitive and secondly affords opportunity to grow and really see if we could realise our potential

There are many clubs in the Championship with a higher net worth than us so financially I don’t think it would hurt us significantly.

Yes I know they don’t want us blah blah blah however offering an opinion of someone who w oh I’d happily see competitive football if it offered opportunity to grow and realise potential

I'd absolutely love to see that happen too.

As you concede, however, it's not happening, so if this is what we're stuck with, we're absolutely entitled to moan about it, because it's shit.

[Greenlantern]

5 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

It would be a tad more significant if you did it against a bit of competition, don't you think?

 

Coming first in a two horse race when the other horse has been cloned, and looks a shadow of its former self isn't that much to get excited about really.

I’m all for the league to be more competitive and if you’re asking me if my level of satisfaction would be turned up a notch then possibly. 

If I were supporting a club like yours I’d most certainly get all my high & lows in other aspects of the game throughout the course of a season, if not then what’s the point?

I certainly wouldn’t be looking elsewhere to validate or gauge what is and isn’t significant levels of excitement in football. It just seems weird behaviour for anyone who doesn’t still live with their parents. 
 

 

[RandomGuy.]

Celtic fans want "competitive" football until they realise what it actually entails.

Celtic fans have, literally, never had to worry about not being one of the best two clubs in the country for about 40 years. For most on here thats probably their entire lives. Its just impossible for them to understand what its actually like to finish in the bottom half of the table, and I suspect if/when they finally find a "super league" to play in, and the initial euphoria wears off, they'll finally understand how fans of every other club feel every season.

The irony when they're mewling about unfairness as they finish 16th every season in the "Super league" C division, with not a single chance of ever getting to the top table because they're miles behind those teams financially, would be off the scale. 

[Monkey Tennis]

20 minutes ago, Greenlantern said:

I’m all for the league to be more competitive 

What would you propose as a means of bringing that about? 

[wastecoatwilly]

37 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I still think that the fact there's two of them is absolutely key.  An absent and crippled new Rangers, did result in a diminishing of Celtic.

The idea that each of them has overcome something comparable in any 'triumphs', lends them an air of legitimacy and helps prop up the illusory farce.

Sevco have underachieved Monkey since they made it to the top flight so I disagree that they are part of our monopoly M8, they've bearly made the laws of averages with two trophies in 7 years. 
I get the same feeling with Celtic beating Barcelona or Scotland beating Spain plus appreciate good football being played or goals being scored (O'Hara's first goal was a peach at the weekend) to say it's hollow is absolute nonsense, I've enjoyed every treble because it's different each time, each moment is different.
The end goal is the same but the beauty of football moves forward with so many different possibilities.

[Greenlantern]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What would you propose as a means of bringing that about? 

We’ve had this discussion before Monkey, it’s always very exhausting. Just for the reasons you don’t take the opinions of Celtic or Rangers fans seriously I’m afraid anything I say won’t satisfy your curiosity. 

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Sevco have underachieved Monkey since they made it to the top flight so I disagree that they are part of our monopoly M8, they've bearly made the laws of averages with two trophies in 7 years. 
I get the same feeling with Celtic beating Barcelona or Scotland beating Spain plus appreciate good football being played or goals being scored (O'Hara's first goal was a peach at the weekend) to say it's hollow is absolute nonsense, I've enjoyed every treble because it's different each time, each moment is different.
The end goal is the same but the beauty of football moves forward with so many different possibilities.

Yes, Rangers are behind Celtic, but they're close enough for the derbies to get star billing and to keep meeting each other in the latter stages of Cups.  They give Celtic's trophies a sheen of achievement they'd otherwise lack.

As for the kick you apparently get from runs of trebles, fair enough - it's up to you.  It would hold literally no appeal for me, but we're all different.

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, Greenlantern said:

We’ve had this discussion before Monkey, it’s always very exhausting. Just for the reasons you don’t take the opinions of Celtic or Rangers fans seriously I’m afraid anything I say won’t satisfy your curiosity. 

Maybe not, but you could at least play.

If you say that you're "all for" something, it's not unreasonable to ask how it could be so.

[wastecoatwilly]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, Rangers are behind Celtic, but they're close enough for the derbies to get star billing and to keep meeting each other in the latter stages of Cups.  They give Celtic's trophies a sheen of achievement they'd otherwise lack.

As for the kick you apparently get from runs of trebles, fair enough - it's up to you.  It would hold literally no appeal for me, but we're all different.

There is a positive vibe in Scottish football and the national team Monkey,for me it's in a good place but like you said we see things very different but that's what football is all about M8.

[10menwent2mow]

For me, if they ever were to leave Scottish football it needs to 

1. Be for good

And 

2. No leaving a colt team behind. 

I fear the introduction of the colts to the lowland league means that neither of those 2 criteria will be satisfied.

[Monkey Tennis]

11 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

There is a positive vibe in Scottish football and the national team Monkey,for me it's in a good place but like you said we see things very different but that's what football is all about M8.

The national side is doing better, but I don't feel much of a vibe over anything happening domestically with our club game.

[pozbaird]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

The national side is doing better, but I don't feel much of a vibe over anything happening domestically with our club game.

There’s a good vibe around St Mirren just now, and indeed Aberdeen. St Mirren, Aberdeen, and eight other top flight clubs operate in our own league - the one where 3rd is actually top spot. Spots 1 & 2 are gone, out of sight, forever. Unless Jeff Bezos or a clinically insane Saudi decides to buy Motherwell or St Johnstone.

Good vibe over where Scotland’s top flight is as a league? Not a chance. It’s fcuked in the head.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The national side is doing better, but I don't feel much of a vibe over anything happening domestically with our club game.

Big Marvin has made the doomhamers better since arriving plus giving us Dykes as the main man must give you some pride M8?

[wastecoatwilly]

5 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Good vibe over where Scotland’s top flight is as a league? Not a chance. It’s fcuked in the head

3rd gets guaranteed European football and the dosh that comes with it but you diddies couldn't careless, leave our game alone attitude reminds me of KEEP OFF THE GRASS signs. 

[pozbaird]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

3rd gets guaranteed European football and the dosh that comes with it but you diddies couldn't careless, leave our game alone attitude reminds me of KEEP OFF THE GRASS signs. 

I agree. 3rd is great. I said that ten of us are playing for 3rd, which to us, is top. We cannot finish 1st or 2nd, can we? Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, all a zillion points behind the uglies. There’s a two team league and another ten team league below that. That’s pretty much it.

Anything I’ve said here that you think is wrong?

[wastecoatwilly]

3 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I agree. 3rd is great. I said that ten of us are playing for 3rd, which to us, is top. We cannot finish 1st or 2nd, can we? Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, all a zillion points behind the uglies. There’s a two team league and another ten team league below that. That’s pretty much it.

Anything I’ve said here that you think is wrong?

So the cherry is just the same for you diddies?

[Monkey Tennis]

17 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Big Marvin has made the doomhamers better since arriving plus giving us Dykes as the main man must give you some pride M8?

Bartley hopefully can make a difference.  After a slow start, there were some positive signs ahead of Saturday.

I wasn't a fan of Dykes.  I find it more a source of annoyance than pride, that he causes international defenders more difficulty than he could Alloa ones.

[pozbaird]

12 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So the cherry is just the same for you diddies?

I have no idea what your ‘cherry’ patter is. I well remember a time when Aberdeen could genuinely be in the mix for titles, when Dundee United won the title, when (oooohhhh, the pain) Hearts should have won it. When St Mirren finished third and actually had a sniff of the title with less than ten games to play. A time when Celtic were biscuit tin and Oldco were staunchly 11 Scottish Proddies and therefore self-handicapped… the fcuking bigoted idiots.

Anyhow, fast forward to 2023 and any chance of a repeat has gone. Has gone SO far away, that for everyone else, thoughts of 1st or 2nd are gone. To the point where us ten diddies should club together, buy a 3rd place trophy, and have it presented on a podium with paper cannons and an open top bus parade. I’m not happy about that being the situation, I think it’s sad, I think it’s fcuked-in-the-head to live with a top flight dominated, absolutely utterly dominated, by two disproportionally large clubs with more than a whiff of sectarian pish about them. That being said, I have now sadly fully accepted that is going to continue forever. The traditionally ‘next biggest’ clubs in Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs, are just as likely to be on the end of an ‘Old Firm’ 5-0 routine pumping these days as St Mirren, St Johnstone or Killie. Christ, we even made it look a teensy bit interesting for a bit on Saturday, but lost by three. This weekend again, Killie looked like being on the end of a 7-0, had the penalty went in, McGregor hadn’t fannied around, and Celtic didn’t hit cruise control.

I hate the fact everyone is chasing 3rd at best. I hate it that both uglies are light years over the horizon…. Third is great though, even though I hate the fact, because in reality, that is it for ten of us. What I dream of is a situation whereby even if the two uglies win the league most years,  I hope for a league where going into the split, there’s maybe six points separating first, second and third, with fourth and fifth in touching distance of them. The sniff of someone doing ‘a Leicester City’ once every so often. A league where, when St Mirren actually beat Celtic this season, it was followed up by a couple of others also beating them. Enough to create competition and to make an ugly think. Sadly, we are a million miles away from even that. No challenge,  just pumping after routine pumping.

Fcuk knows what your cherry is season after season. Pumping ‘them’ and not being cannon fodder in Europe? As a league though, Scotland’s top flight stinks. To high heaven.

Edited April 18, 2023 by pozbaird

[Trackdaybob]

14 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

I’d happily take an exit route into the English Championship

 

Based on what? Delusions of grandeur? 

[PrestersKTID]

20 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

The best outcome for Scottish football is a solution that allows Celtic and Rangers to compete outwith Scottish football. Will the other clubs flourish without us? I have no idea but it seems we would all be happier 

I believe they would. The money would go down initially due to the broadcasters spitting the dummy at not having 4 x OF games.

However, crowds would be up imo which would make up for some of the TV/sponsorship money. Killie's opening game was over 8000 against Dundee united. We pulled 10000+ against arbroath last season, funnily enough when going for a title. If teams have a chance to win something fans return. If you're having to pay £30 to see your team destroyed fans will stay away.

At the start of every season you would have 12 teams who can realistically win the title. Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs would have the biggest budgets but they wouldn't be so far ahead as to dwarf the other teams. Killie have beaten each of them this season and we're pants.

It would be a really competitive league, in past 15 years Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee united, Motherwell, Killie, St Johnstone and ICT have all finished 2nd or 3rd. (some non rangers years for the 2nd places in there of course) Livi have been 3rd in the past, St Mirren have an outside chance this season. 

The fact that most of those teams plus county have all won a trophy in past 20 years or so is frankly miraculous.