National Conference League

[Footballfirst]

57 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

As a Hearts fan how do you feel about them having a B team in the LL.

I'm a Hearts fan and attended pretty well all Hearts B home games and a handful of away games this season.  I definitely saw improvements in terms of player development as the season progressed, which is what I was looking for regardless of where they played.

That said, I don't believe that the B Teams should be anywhere near the Lowland League and that it was a huge mistake by George Fraser that allowed it to happen. However, the genie is out the bottle and the LL clubs are now beginning to realise that there is no way back for decisions made in the last two years.

Should a 10 team "Conference League" come to fruition, I can't see me attending even a fraction of the games I did this season.  Playing teams 4 times a season doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, particularly when a good proportion of those will be against other B teams.

[Dundee Hibernian]

I've just listened to the LL chair Thomas Brown on the 'Official catchup' podcat from the start of this this thread: just after the 46 minute mark he stated: "All leagues were represented at a meeting in London". I'm sure all leagues probably weren't represented, but it's quite astonishing if any meeting took place in London at all. 

Why London? How long did the meeting take? Specifically who attended? Was it an overnighter, or even longer? Who paid costs?

It sounds a bit like a jaunt, to me, perhaps even an inducement to participants. 

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Should a 10 team "Conference League" come to fruition, I can't see me attending even a fraction of the games I did this season.  Playing teams 4 times a season doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, particularly when a good proportion of those will be against other B teams.

Might be a bit trickier for you. Wasn't the Celtic v. Hearts game played at like 13:00 on a weekday? Start including Aberdeen in the mix I can see them adjust kick-offs to let them up & down the road as quick as possible with selling tickets a complete after thought.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I've just listened to the LL chair Thomas Brown on the 'Official catchup' podcat from the start of this this thread: just after the 46 minute mark he stated: "All leagues were represented at a meeting in London". I'm sure all leagues probably weren't represented, but it's quite astonishing if any meeting took place in London at all. 

Why London? How long did the meeting take? Specifically who attended? Was it an overnighter, or even longer? Who paid costs?

It sounds a bit like a jaunt, to me, perhaps even an inducement to participants. 

Wasn't it Hampden?

[welshbairn]

42 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I've just listened to the LL chair Thomas Brown on the 'Official catchup' podcat from the start of this this thread: just after the 46 minute mark he stated: "All leagues were represented at a meeting in London". I'm sure all leagues probably weren't represented, but it's quite astonishing if any meeting took place in London at all. 

Why London? How long did the meeting take? Specifically who attended? Was it an overnighter, or even longer? Who paid costs?

It sounds a bit like a jaunt, to me, perhaps even an inducement to participants. 

I think it was a Pyramid Working Group meeting in Hampden, the first one they've had for yonks. I get the impression they were just presented with the conference proposal as the only viable option out of three, with no reference to any of the suggestions for pyramid reform from the leagues, just the B-team threat/stitch up, and given little opportunity to discuss it with it being presented as a done deal. I can't swear to this as the only person to talk about it so far seems to be Thomas Brown who is hardly a neutral observer.

Edited April 26, 2023 by welshbairn

[CityDave94]

3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Hearts back out of fielding a B-team, especially in a conference where they play other u20/21's teams along with part timers at a level 4 tiers below their first team, plus all the extra mandatory staffing costs. They'd be better off in a reserve league playing alongside and against full time professionals of all ages, with some dropping in and out of Premiership teams, either that or out on loan.

Hearts B would eventually struggle in the Lowland League as the quality slowly starts to improve as teams are added to the bottleneck and the poorest on the conveyor belt of doom fall of the end. Outside the ugly sisters most B teams would struggle in the Lowland League over a season. Its hard going for youngsters.

In a 10 team Conference made up of 4 B teams and 6 teams part time senior teams, these 6 being among the best teams outside the SPFL, no surprises who would finish bottom most seasons. Getting pumped 6-0 or 8-0 by East Kilbride or Tranent every week will wear thin very quickly.

One of the main complaints I've heard from Ibrox was Rangers not having any control in how young players are looked after when sent out on loan to other clubs.

[morrison]

1 hour ago, Dav nan Gael said:

 

The door has been opened and its too late now to reverse what has happened unfortunately  

 

This is the sort of mindset that two clubs in particular, and the SFA, appear to be relying upon. 

There's absolutely still time to close that door. The B teams are only in the LL by invitation. Their entry can be denied at any point and this conference can't go ahead without support from those clubs deemed eligible. 

None of it is inevitable.

[Pyramid Watcher]

1 hour ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I've just listened to the LL chair Thomas Brown on the 'Official catchup' podcat from the start of this this thread: just after the 46 minute mark he stated: "All leagues were represented at a meeting in London". I'm sure all leagues probably weren't represented, but it's quite astonishing if any meeting took place in London at all. 

Why London? How long did the meeting take? Specifically who attended? Was it an overnighter, or even longer? Who paid costs?

It sounds a bit like a jaunt, to me, perhaps even an inducement to participants. 

I don’t recall him saying anything about London???

[Dundee Hibernian]

36 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

I don’t recall him saying anything about London???

I listened three times, but @welshbairn and @FairWeatherFan point out he was 'saying 'Hampden'. Maybe it's Brown's accent, maybe it's my hearing. Either way, he hardly explained a thing , simply presented as he appeared to have been directed by Maxwell. 

To be clear, I would like all the leagues to be more open for easier movement between the divisions, but if someone is fully supportive about this, they surely must be 100% against dropping an extra/new league right into the middle of the system. That's before they even have an opinion on whether B sides should be involved. within the overall structure.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I listened three times, but @welshbairn and @FairWeatherFan point out he was 'saying 'Hampden'. Maybe it's Brown's accent, maybe it's my hearing. Either way, he hardly explained a thing , simply presented as he appeared to have been directed by Maxwell. 

To be clear, I would like all the leagues to be more open for easier movement between the divisions, but if someone is fully supportive about this, they surely must be 100% against dropping an extra/new league right into the middle of the system. That's before they even have an opinion on whether B sides should be involved. within the overall structure.

He's got a really shitty microphone, it was painful to listen to, I misheard stuff too.

[Dav nan Gael]

2 hours ago, morrison said:

This is the sort of mindset that two clubs in particular, and the SFA, appear to be relying upon. 

There's absolutely still time to close that door. The B teams are only in the LL by invitation. Their entry can be denied at any point and this conference can't go ahead without support from those clubs deemed eligible. 

None of it is inevitable.

I can't stand the B teams inclusion.......but I've saw this elsewhere in life before...,only takes one small step and the Dam is burst.

There's more than meets the eye going on in the background........unfortunately. 

[stanley]

9 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The LL let the genie out of the bottle and unfortunately it isn't going back.  The problem for most isn't B teams (The EoS had Hibs B for a season 10 years ago), it's the fact they're being shoehorned in rather than applying like any other club and starting at the bottom.

If the B teams applied individually to WoS and EoS without the wailing and gnashing of teeth from Maxwell & Co, then they would almost certainly have been accepted, but the OF wanted in at a higher level, and the SFA/LL facilitated that. You won't get rid of them now however much we want them to disappear.

I can't see there ever being more than half-a-dozen B teams, the costs associated with running them rules out most clubs who will stick with U18/U20's.  If you had six B teams spread throughout the non-league system west and east then it wouldn't be much of an issue, one team out of 16 doesn't really impact.  It's when you have 3 or 4 or 5 all in the same division who didn't earn the right to be there is where the problems start.

The SFA and LL are the two culpable parties for this utter mess of a Conference, with a healthy dose of pot stirring by some L2 Chairmen.

Yes and the lack of possible relegation for the B teams makes it even more ridiculous. To be honest, I'm against the B teams being in the pyramid at all but, if they are going to force them into the system, having them in a league they can't get promoted from or relegated out of makes it a total farce and reduces any of the potential benefits to the players in the B teams. It just seems completely pointless having them in a league that they can't go in and out of and all seems set up so that the Old Firm B teams win it each year until eventually they are allowed into League Two. As shown by the Hearts B team struggling in the Lowland League this year, I doubt there's much capacity for any non-Old Firm B teams to do particularly well (and this is in a Lowland League still far from having all the strongest non-league teams).

Edited April 26, 2023 by stanley

[welshbairn]

This 'the genie' s out of the bottle' stuff about B-teams is annoying and wrong, all that needed to happen was 3 Lowland League clubs changing their vote from Yes to No: 8-7 from 5-10.

[Dav nan Gael]

17 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

This 'the genie' s out of the bottle' stuff about B-teams is annoying and wrong, all that needed to happen was 3 Lowland League clubs changing their vote from Yes to No: 8-7 from 5-10.

They were cajoled into it WB by the SFA.......,as I said there's more going on in the background than what is being laid out here on P&B.

[welshbairn]

10 minutes ago, Dav nan Gael said:

They were cajoled into it WB by the SFA.......,as I said there's more going on in the background than what is being laid out here on P&B.

Aye, how many Rangers or Celtic 'minded' people are doing the cajoling from the top of Lowland League committees? 

[PELE]

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

and even worse odds of getting relegated into the financial abyss of the Lowland League. Presumably now with no parachute payments, no League Cup and No Challenge Cup.

Still better for them than going straight to the Lowland League. They have at least one season to get their act together and the same money each season they are in it. I would think that the parachute payment might still be there for relegation into the Lowland League, although maybe less money, as two could go down. Also think they would still get in the League Cup for one season if relegated into the Lowland League and same as now for the Challenge Cup.

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, PELE said:

Still better for them than going straight to the Lowland League. They have at least one season to get their act together and the same money each season they are in it. I would think that the parachute payment might still be there for relegation into the Lowland League, although maybe less money, as two could go down. Also think they would still get in the League Cup for one season if relegated into the Lowland League and same as now for the Challenge Cup.

The idea that any change to the setup is being offered to help League 2 clubs adjust is laughable nonsense. They are not why the SFA and the gruesome twosome are pushing their agendas - they are not actually the stumbling block to a more effective structure either. 

[highlandmac]

On 25/04/2023 at 15:51, HorseyGhirl said:

Who knows what goes on in the Dark Tower. Do these people that are supposed to oversee our game go to any matches other than Scotland games, semis, finals and the twins.

This was meant to be about the kids and their development. It doesn't feel that is even in their thoughts at all. 

I've mentioned before that have seen decent prospects disappear off to pro youth and come back deflated and poorer than before.

What is being involved in these B Teams, where they are molly coddled,  teaching these young players is this protected, uncompetitive environment. Is it preparing them for the cut-throat world of professional football. The evidence so far suggests no.

 

It's so very clearly about nothing other than allowing the arse cheeks a presence in the Scottish leagues if/when they get into a European league or England.nothing to do with the development of young talent

[craigkillie]

2 minutes ago, highlandmac said:

It's so very clearly about nothing other than allowing the arse cheeks a presence in the Scottish leagues if/when they get into a European league or England.nothing to do with the development of young talent

This has absolutely nothing to do with it. If Celtic and Rangers decide to join some sort of foreign league and want to keep fielding a team domestically, they'll just do that. They don't need to set up a B team in the fifth tier a decade in advance.

[highlandmac]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with it. If Celtic and Rangers decide to join some sort of foreign league and want to keep fielding a team domestically, they'll just do that. They don't need to set up a B team in the fifth tier a decade in advance.

So much easier to do of you've a b team in the championship already

Do you honestly think that they're going through all this grief and expense to develop Scottish talent?