Steve Clarke - in/out/general discussion

[54_and_counting]

On 17/06/2024 at 16:55, gannonball said:

Patterson may eventually develop in to a decent one but he's still much the same player for me that broke in to Rangers team years ago but hasn't added much to his game since. I wouldn't be hanging my hat on him anyway any time soon.

I also wouldn't say Tierney isn't our best CB either. I say this as an absolute Tierney fan boy but as soon as we talk about going to two CB's he almost drops out of the equation.

Even if he was the best CB, arguably the drop off from tierney to say mckenna isnt as much as the drop off from any right back to ralston 

Moving tierney to right back immediately improves that position by a massive amount, a lot more than the loss of tierney to mckenna is in centre half 

[Alan Twelve]

2 hours ago, ArabFC said:

You don't, or you're mad!

In neither '96 or '98 could we have been conceivably considered be the best team in the group by any sane individual. 

In fact the only bad performance out of the six group games was against Morocco and looking at the lineup I'm at a loss as to who you consider his duds, and who they should have been replaced by.

I think he's referring to qualifying groups. Which is still wrong, but not certifiably insane.

[Alan Twelve]

2 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

Craig Burley !

Played very well against both Brazil and Norway in 98.

[git-intae-thum]

24 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

Played very well against both Brazil and Norway in 98.

Would bite yer arm off for him at RWB now.

[2426255]

6 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

That’s exactly what I am saying and the performance and result kind of backs that up. Compare that to some of the performances of other teams against top seeds Slovakia, Serbia, Austria

We didn't play well, but I don't think the players weren't trying. Thats your opinion. I don't agree with it or think you'll find much support for the idea that the first game of the Euro's the players deliberately chucked.

[git-intae-thum]

13 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

We didn't play well, but I don't think the players weren't trying. Thats your opinion. I don't agree with it or think you'll find much support for the idea that the first game of the Euro's the players deliberately chucked.

The tactics were daft.....30 years out of date.

We set up to sneak a draw at best.. probably lose narrowly.

Deservedly got pumped.

No other team at the Euros will stink the competition out like that.

[Chripper]

The recent Andrew Robertson press conference about Scotland playing with "fear" was very interesting.

This could be a psychological issue as much it is about talent.

Every Scottish born Scot has grown up as Scotland being subservient to another nation. Our voice doesn't matter, we're an afterthought, our votes don't matter, etc.

You even get Scottish voters inexplicably voting for a political part of another nation. And it's been that way for generations.

I think that has given Scots a deep-set inferiority complex. It's epigenetics.

If you're a slave, for an example, and you grow up in an environment where you're told that you're a second class citizen, you aren't exactly going to have an air of authority or a sense of gravitas or feel that you deserve to thrive.

In sport there's been exceptions to the rule, but they're becoming few and far between.

And don't get me started on the pathetic cowards and traitors who voted no af the independence referendum.

Edited June 18 by SlayerX

[2426255]

9 minutes ago, SlayerX said:

The recent Andrew Robertson press conference about Scotland playing with "fear" was very interesting.

This could be a psychological issue as much it is about talent.

Every Scottish born Scot has grown up as Scotland being subservient to another nation. Our voice doesn't matter, we're an afterthought, our votes don't matter, etc.

You even get Scottish voters inexplicably voting for a political part of another nation. And it's been that way for generations.

I think that has given Scots a deep-set inferiority complex. It's epigenetics.

If you're a slave, for an example, and you grow up in an environment where you're told that you're a second class citizen, you aren't exactly going to have an air of authority or a sense of gravitas or feel that you deserve to thrive.

In sport there's been exceptions to the rule, but they're becoming few and far between.

Hmm, sure you're not over analysing? He probably meant they didn't take risks and didn't want to make mistakes rather than an existential, deep seated generational thing.

[Chripper]

9 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Hmm, sure you're not over analysing? He probably meant they didn't take risks and didn't want to make mistakes rather than an existential, deep seated generational thing.

I think it's an issue with Scots born people. It's a cut that's becoming deeper with every passing generation.

With sports, we all see how massive a part sports phycologists play in the top level of sport.

It's definitely worth considering.

[2426255]

1 minute ago, SlayerX said:

I think it's an issue with Scots born people. It's a cut that's becoming deeper with every passing generation.

With sports, we all see how massive a part sports phycologists play in the top level of sport.

It's definitely worth considering.

Did Robbo mention any of the slave stuff, inferiority complex or is it your personal interpretation of the interview?

[Chripper]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Did Robbo mention any of the slave stuff, inferiority complex or is it your personal interpretation of the interview?

It was generally my intereptation.

The slave thing is a metaphor. But yes, Scotland are that, in all but name. The only time we show a wee bit of passion or resistance is during Scotland matches. Sadly.

Ronnie O'Sullivan, for example. Without Steve Peters by his side, he wouldn't have equaled Hendry's 7 world Championships.

All credit to O'Sullivan for that. His ego didn't get in the way of him admitting that he wasn't perfect and he needed help.

If bringing in a sports psychologist into the camp would improve things by even 1%, it's worth it.

 

[2426255]

Just now, SlayerX said:

It was generally my intereptation.

The slave thing is a metaphor. But yes, Scotland are that, in all but name. The only time we show a wee bit of passion or resistance is during Scotland matches. Sadly.

Ronnie O'Sullivan, for example. Without Steve Peters by his side, he wouldn't have equaled Hendry's 7 world Championships.

All credit to O'Sullivan for that. His ego didn't get in the way of him admitting that he wasn't perfect and he needed help.

If bringing in a sports psychologist into the camp would improve things by even 1%, it's worth it.

 

Fair enough. night mate.

[Chripper]

8 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Fair enough. night mate.

Night, mate.

Cross your fingers and toes and everything for tonight.

[BB_Bino]

11 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

Moving tierney to right back immediately improves that position by a massive amount, a lot more than the loss of tierney to mckenna is in centre half 

What frustrates me more than anything is that Clarke hasn't even tried it. He had qualifiers that didn't matter, to do it, and friendlies to try things out....and he still didn't do it. Baffles me. What baffles me even more is that under Strachan, KT looked really comfortable in at Right Back and from memory, was Man of the Match, playing in that position, against England. There is a lot to be critical about over that era but I actually thought that he managed to solve the KT and Robertson dilemma pretty well by putting him there. 

The second game in a major tournament isn't the time to be ripping up the plans and trying new things out, however, knowing for some time that our first and second choice Right Backs probably weren't going to make it, I would have expected him to at least try it. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 17/06/2024 at 15:28, Crùbag said:

 

 

12 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

Even if he was the best CB, arguably the drop off from tierney to say mckenna isnt as much as the drop off from any right back to ralston 

Moving tierney to right back immediately improves that position by a massive amount, a lot more than the loss of tierney to mckenna is in centre half 

Robbo was not a success there 

11 hours ago, Alan Twelve said:

I think he's referring to qualifying groups. Which is still wrong, but not certifiably insane.

Morocco was at the actual finals

11 hours ago, Alan Twelve said:

Played very well against both Brazil and Norway in 98.

Partly an attempt at humour 

40 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

What frustrates me more than anything is that Clarke hasn't even tried it. He had qualifiers that didn't matter, to do it, and friendlies to try things out....and he still didn't do it. Baffles me. What baffles me even more is that under Strachan, KT looked really comfortable in at Right Back and from memory, was Man of the Match, playing in that position, against England. There is a lot to be critical about over that era but I actually thought that he managed to solve the KT and Robertson dilemma pretty well by putting him there. 

The second game in a major tournament isn't the time to be ripping up the plans and trying new things out, however, knowing for some time that our first and second choice Right Backs probably weren't going to make it, I would have expected him to at least try it. 

Is McCrorie that bad ?

[Ewanandmoreagain]

44 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

What frustrates me more than anything is that Clarke hasn't even tried it. He had qualifiers that didn't matter, to do it, and friendlies to try things out....and he still didn't do it. Baffles me. What baffles me even more is that under Strachan, KT looked really comfortable in at Right Back and from memory, was Man of the Match, playing in that position, against England. There is a lot to be critical about over that era but I actually thought that he managed to solve the KT and Robertson dilemma pretty well by putting him there. 

The second game in a major tournament isn't the time to be ripping up the plans and trying new things out, however, knowing for some time that our first and second choice Right Backs probably weren't going to make it, I would have expected him to at least try it. 

He tried McCrorie and Ralston 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

12 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

The issue is where the space is reduced, germanys first, second and 3rd goals all came because the back 3 were so deep marking one man sometimes a second man that everything was within the scotland 3rd of the park 

The 3rd goal eventually, scotland, clarke and everyone has sat for 40 odd mins and watched the German 3 attacking mids run rings round mctominay and mcgregor, yet no one steps up to help them, so the dink into the box is literally by a player whos under no pressure 30 yards out meanwhile the header that gunn saves is what, from 8 or 9 yards out? If the back 3 were any deeper gunn would have been the one pressing the german midfield 

 

When wirtz scores the first goal he's unmarked just outside the 18yard box, meanwhile scotlands back 3 plus ralston are almost on the 6 yard line marking 2 men

This !

[54_and_counting]

On 18/06/2024 at 08:54, Butters Scotch said:

You are still peppering this forum with this 3ATB back 'analysis' I see. The reason we have it is to fit in Robo and KT into the same team. If either are out on long term injuries then I'm pretty sure Clarke would change it to go to a back 4 again. Deluded. 

This is what's going to cost scotland, his preference to picking pals, ralston and jack should be absolutely nowhere near that squad for starters, last friday if he started with 

Gunn

Tierney, hendry, porteous, Robertson 

Mcginn, gilmour, mctominay

Christie, adams (both as inside 10's)

Shankland

Absolutely no chance the game goes anything like it did last Friday, that line up gives protection in the middle, a close 3 that can keep the ball for more than 3 seconds, 2 mobile 10's who can run the channels plus press kroos and andrich

Even if one of the german attacking mids break off and drift wide to double up with their fullbacks, the midfield 3 Scotland have can cover that and still be man for man in the middle of the park 

[Galajambo]

The one thing that's pissing me off greatly is how piss poor we were, and Georgia, who finished 4th in our qualifying group, actually went there and put on a great show against Turkey, it shows we have the tools to do it, but do we have the mindset? 

[PB1994]

15 minutes ago, Galajambo said:

The one thing that's pissing me off greatly is how piss poor we were, and Georgia, who finished 4th in our qualifying group, actually went there and put on a great show against Turkey, it shows we have the tools to do it, but do we have the mindset? 

Slightly different expectations though. Georgia are here under no pressure at all. The achievement for them is even being here in the first place. There is a general expectation on us, from Scottish fans and media, to be looking to qualify for the last 16. Georgia can afford to go out and give it a go against anyone they face and if they end up with 0 points and a couple of heavy defeats its no big deal. Scotland can't afford to do that.

Plus they were playing Turkey and not Germany. Not trying to take anything away from how awful our performance was but there is a massive gap in the level of opposition faced.