ekok Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Seriously you don't understand what I am talking about. The Hungary game in Stugart was the absolute pathetic low point for our National Team in history. If you don’t get that, just check out. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 10 minutes ago, ekok said: Seriously you don't understand what I am talking about. The Hungary game in Stugart was the absolute pathetic low point for our National Team in history. If you don’t get that, just check out. Yeah, my point was more why you're going off on one at me like an absolute daftie when I'm not even the one disagreeing with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Reading this thread, I’m reminded why it’s a good idea to avoid the tartan army section when Scotland aren’t playing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 I take it he's not going then. We're lumbered with the bald arse piece for the seeable future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) Let's see if the people who want Steve Clarke out have the same opinion if he gets us to the next World Cup. My money is on a big fat "doubt it". He'll most probably do a Gareth Southgate and leave when his contract expires in 2026. The past is usually a good way of gauging the future. So, the next manager will probably rip up Clarke's successful qualification tactics and we'll go 20 years without qualifying for anything. Qualification is far from a given. It would appear that some people have forgotten that the 10 managers who preceeded Clarke all failed to qualify for tournaments. Some people have short memories. Edited July 22 by Chripper -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 At least this debate isn’t circular. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Chripper said: Let's see if the people who want Steve Clarke out have the same opinion if he gets us to the next World Cup. He isn't going to get us to the WC. If you don't win the group you have to qualify via playoff. So playoff is the only real path. A playoff game is a must win game for both sides. In that scenario Clarke's Scotland have an almost 0% chance of progressing barring a fluke goal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) 38 minutes ago, immcinto said: He isn't going to get us to the WC. If you don't win the group you have to qualify via playoff. So playoff is the only real path. A playoff game is a must win game for both sides. In that scenario Clarke's Scotland have an almost 0% chance of progressing barring a fluke goal. We qualified for Euro 20 via the playoffs. We beat Israel in the semi and Serbia in the final. There's precedence. I would suggest that certain people here get the number of the Samaritans because we're playing Croatia, Poland and Portugal in the upcoming months. We are Scotland. Our club teams struggle to beat Maltese and Azerbaijan teams in European qualification. Aberdeen being destroyed 4-1 by the mighty Qarabag FK being the one that pops in my recent memory. There's a list full of club humiliations. And yet, for some reasons, fans aren't content with the national team qualifying for the European Championship. Some so-called Scotland fans need to be beaten by the reality stick. Edited July 22 by Chripper -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 6 hours ago, ekok said: No you don't get to play that card. In sport , and most things in life , input defines outcome. In 60 plus years of watching our National Team never ever been so embarrassed, disappointed and gutted. If you don't understand that explanation, then you must be SC Have you quoted the wrong person here? You seem terribly confused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 8 hours ago, 2426255 said: Fans can't be expected to understand the finer details of football This from the guy who thought standing beyond the goalkeeper rendered an attacker onside. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: This from the guy who thought standing beyond the goalkeeper rendered an attacker onside. My observations are that fans, myself included, don't have a good understanding of what's happening when a game plays out. You only see the detail when you re-watch a game, pause it, break it down and compare. That's not a criticism of fans, but a reality. Supporters do not have the same understanding of football as professionals working in that industry. Certainly not on the same level as the people involved in the planning and execution of a particular game, e.g. Scotland v Hungary. That's why Nagelsmann's quote caught my eye: Spoiler Quote In our country it's become quite common for fans to judge players, which I don't like to do because I'm just watching it as a fan. I would never sit in front of the TV and say that I would have done so-and-so as the manager or question what a player is doing, because you don't know what's really going on there. It's a terrible example, but there are teams that are really bad at throw-ins in their own half so a team might have a tactic to kick the ball against an opposing player to force them to have lots of throw-ins in their own half or put the ball out of play themselves. The fans just see a lot of balls going out of play and wonder why that is. When you don't know what the managers plan is and what they might have intended, it's extremely hard to judge. That's not to say that you're not disappointed as a fan when Germany don't play well in tournaments. But I'm not a manager who sits in front of the TV, judges another manager, is constantly making notes or claims that he would have reacted a certain way or made certain substitutions because I wasn't there. Julian Nagelsmann https://streamable.com/kipkso Fans react to outcomes: Goals, shots, results etc. Events. That's fine, a consequence of division of labour. It doesn't change the reality that fans won't understand the detail of what is unfolding in front of them. That's why it is my view that Managers and fans are poles apart. It's also probably why Southgate said what he said. To him, from his perspective there probably isn't a lot of difference in performance level game to game. Sometimes the game plays out positively and sometimes it doesn't. Edited July 22 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 hours ago, Chripper said: Let's see if the people who want Steve Clarke out have the same opinion if he gets us to the next World Cup. My money is on a big fat "doubt it". He'll most probably do a Gareth Southgate and leave when his contract expires in 2026. The past is usually a good way of gauging the future. So, the next manager will probably rip up Clarke's successful qualification tactics and we'll go 20 years without qualifying for anything. Qualification is far from a given. It would appear that some people have forgotten that the 10 managers who preceeded Clarke all failed to qualify for tournaments. Some people have short memories. Qualifying is nice, but it is just that, qualifying. The purpose of football is to win tournaments, or at least try to win them. We need better players for that. That’s not really down to Clarke though. He’s got a team with a few good midfielders and a few good full backs. That team’s not winning anything, despite all the roaring about this being the best team for a generation, so qualifying is likely as good as it gets. We Just make up the numbers. Getting out the group would be success. It doesn’t help that it’s June these tournaments get played. Our performances in June, whether at tournaments or in qualifying are often poor. In recent years I’m remembering that pumping in Ireland and the WC play-off loss to Ukraine. I suppose there is still time for Clarke to make an announcement but if he doesn’t then good luck to him, he obviously thinks he can get us to the World Cup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 10 hours ago, Gordon EF said: What on Earth are you talking about? Sorry Gordon, my bad, my comments were aimed at numbers not you. BTW he is still talking nonsense and still doesn't grasp my basic point, that it was manner of how we performed, not the results that I am so upset about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLanarkshireWhite Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 hours ago, Scary Bear said: Qualifying is nice, but it is just that, qualifying. The purpose of football is to win tournaments, or at least try to win them. We need better players for that. That’s not really down to Clarke though. He’s got a team with a few good midfielders and a few good full backs. That team’s not winning anything, despite all the roaring about this being the best team for a generation, so qualifying is likely as good as it gets. We Just make up the numbers. Getting out the group would be success. It doesn’t help that it’s June these tournaments get played. Our performances in June, whether at tournaments or in qualifying are often poor. In recent years I’m remembering that pumping in Ireland and the WC play-off loss to Ukraine. I suppose there is still time for Clarke to make an announcement but if he doesn’t then good luck to him, he obviously thinks he can get us to the World Cup. earn another £500,000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, ekok said: Sorry Gordon, my bad, my comments were aimed at numbers not you. BTW he is still talking nonsense and still doesn't grasp my basic point, that it was manner of how we performed, not the results that I am so upset about. Aimed at me? Would you have been upset at the performance levels if the outcome had been different? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 32 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said: I can see why the SFA are keen for him to stay if he’s only on £250k a year. Wonder how much proven foreign bloke wants. How much is Jesse Marsch on with Canada? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLanarkshireWhite Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 7 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: I can see why the SFA are keen for him to stay if he’s only on £250k a year. Wonder how much proven foreign bloke wants. How much is Jesse Marsch on with Canada? I don't know his wages but you get my point.... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 19 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Aimed at me? Would you have been upset at the performance levels if the outcome had been different? 100% absolutely, spineless, pathetic, negative, never acceptable no matter the outcome. Not that there was any danger of any other outcome. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said: I don't know his wages but you get my point.... I do, but despite our relatively poor showing at the Euros, I would have thought that Clarke’s record at international level would be good enough to get him another gig that pays similar if he wanted. Maybe the challenge of getting Scotland to a World Cup is something he wants to take on and achieve? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 40 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: I can see why the SFA are keen for him to stay if he’s only on £250k a year. Wonder how much proven foreign bloke wants. You get what you pay for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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