2426255 Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 (edited) 54 minutes ago, ScottishZizou said: In the same way that as an Aberdeen fan if we finish 3rd/4th and get to a couple semi finals it's not a successful season as we haven't performed above expectation but it wouldn't be a failure like this season has been. There's just a difference between what probably the media and majority of fans view as success and what Scotland will view as success internally. I think we've already achieved success in qualifying and anything beyond that now is a bonus. Steve Clarke's contract will still reflect that, so for me that's still the job. At the tournament the level of opposition/competition will increase, We'll have less room for a bad result and more room for random variance. A three game group has increased room for randomness that could work for or against us. Judging him on that against teams that are at worst our equals is a poor way to measure success. It's setting our maximum as the minimum to be successful. Good luck with that. Edited March 24 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: There's just a difference between what probably the media and majority of fans view as success and what Scotland will view as success internally. Do you have anything to back up that the sfa's framework for appraisal just happens to be in line with your opinion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 17 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said: Do you have anything to back up that the sfa's framework for appraisal just happens to be in line with your opinion? Unfortunately for you I do as it happens. This is from 21-Nov-2023, so about 4 months ago, just after the November camp. Quote As a board, you have to have a balanced view of things. I get everyone was disappointed by the Ukraine result, but there is a lot more that goes into assessing the progression. He has done everything we have asked of him. I remember when we appointed him I said he had to make a pot four team into a pot two team. That’s what he did for this qualifying draw, which got us there. Ian Maxwell, SFA Chief Execuitve https://theathletic.com/5079808/2023/11/21/sfa-chief-maxwell-on-legacy-of-scotlands-euros-qualification-and-confidence-in-clarke/ 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 20 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Unfortunately for you I do as it happens. This is from 21-Nov-2023, so about 4 months ago, just after the November camp. https://theathletic.com/5079808/2023/11/21/sfa-chief-maxwell-on-legacy-of-scotlands-euros-qualification-and-confidence-in-clarke/ I dont think this is official policy tho is it? Also it doesn't go in to detail of targets, past being a pot 2 team. So the targets id expect to have changed, saying as were past that point. If you were to summarise, its pretty much saying he is judged on results over his tenure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bing.McCrosby said: I dont think this is official policy tho is it? Also it doesn't go in to detail of targets, past being a pot 2 team. So the targets id expect to have changed, saying as were past that point. If you were to summarise, its pretty much saying he is judged on results over his tenure. I don't expect your pea brain to understand or accept it given you've been desperate for him to be sacked. Everyone can have an opinion. Good luck with yours, you'll need it. Edited March 24 by 2426255 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 10 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I don't expect your pea brain to understand or accept it given you've been desperate for him to be sacked. Everyone can have an opinion. Good luck with yours, you'll need it. Well yeah everyone can have an option. But the opinion Clarke will be judged on bringing in youth, and facilities?? Still not sure what that means. Rather than results and performances is a ridiculous one. Not to mention the sfa agreeing with you Personally I think Scotland and Clarke will do well at the euros. I can see us getting thru the group. And I believe we're certainly capable of that. So im not scared for him to be judged on the results, I imagine he will also feel the same. Is there maybe a lack of faith in Clarke to do well and get the best out of the team for you? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 hours ago, Bing.McCrosby said: Ok, im gonna use the Hungarian team from the 50s, and morton of 94 Maybe start with previous Scotland teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 8 hours ago, Bing.McCrosby said: Well yeah everyone can have an option. But the opinion Clarke will be judged on bringing in youth, and facilities?? Still not sure what that means. Rather than results and performances is a ridiculous one. Not to mention the sfa agreeing with you Personally I think Scotland and Clarke will do well at the euros. I can see us getting thru the group. And I believe we're certainly capable of that. So im not scared for him to be judged on the results, I imagine he will also feel the same. Is there maybe a lack of faith in Clarke to do well and get the best out of the team for you? Our results at Euro-2024 are not what Clarke will be judged on as far as the SFA are concerned. Scotland could lose all three games and he will still be in charge for the first game of the Nations League unless he himself chooses to move on of his own volition. As a fan you might think that shouldn't be the case, but it is the case. That's your bottom line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 15 hours ago, Scary Bear said: Maybe start with previous Scotland teams. Its completely different teams with completely different players. Playing against completely different teams with completely different players. Its all irrelevant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 9 hours ago, 2426255 said: Our results at Euro-2024 are not what Clarke will be judged on as far as the SFA are concerned. Scotland could lose all three games and he will still be in charge for the first game of the Nations League unless he himself chooses to move on of his own volition. As a fan you might think that shouldn't be the case, but it is the case. That's your bottom line. I think when it gets to the point where you think everything thats in your head the sfa agree with. Its maybe time for a wee break. Why do you think we will lose every game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 1 minute ago, Bing.McCrosby said: I think when it gets to the point where you think everything thats in your head the sfa agree with. Its maybe time for a wee break. Why do you think we will lose every game? Interesting that you've resurfaced just now. You'll need to have upped your game if you're looking for another round of this crap. You came off badly last time and had to go away and lick your wounds so hopefully you've been busy behind the scene working on that. If that's the road you're wanting to go down then best of luck to you. I might help you out again this time, just depends if I can be bothered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 56 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Interesting that you've resurfaced just now. You'll need to have upped your game if you're looking for another round of this crap. You came off badly last time and had to go away and lick your wounds so hopefully you've been busy behind the scene working on that. If that's the road you're wanting to go down then best of luck to you. I might help you out again this time, just depends if I can be bothered. Your taking things a bit seriously mate, its a football discussion board. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 7 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said: Your taking things a bit seriously mate, its a football discussion board. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 23/03/2024 at 12:02, 2426255 said: we aren't going to win the Euro's On Steve Clarke, it may not be most people's metric for success, but look at the crowds going to Hampden compared to the previous couple of decades and it's clear that Scotland fans are behind Steve Clarke in a way that other managers never really had. Compared to casually checking the score and seeing we're already two down to Kazakhstan, he's got me excited about Scotland again, so he's a clear success in my book. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiblue Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 It'll be up to Steve when he goes IMHO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Obviously i've got no idea what the SFA's metrics success are but I think there's a danger of retroactively setting expectations. Before the Euro-qualifiers kicked off, it was far from consensus that we'd qualify automatically. Plenty of folk on here thought we'd either not qualify or it would be a real dogfight between ourselves, Norway, and possibly even Georgia for 2nd place. Anecdotal obviously, but I remember looking at international forums and the consensus was generally that Norway would qualify ahead of us. Since we pished qualification and ended up giving Spain a bit of a run for their money for a while for 1st place, it's easy to look back on it all with an air of inevitability. That absolutely was not teh majority feeling before a ball was kicked. There was plenty talk of it being a good thiing we had the play-off spot in the bag, etc. I'm absolutely confident that Steve Clarke will be given the next trournament cycle, no matter what happens at teh finals this summer. it would be insanity on the part of the SFA to ditch him any time soon. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 40 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Obviously i've got no idea what the SFA's metrics success are but I think there's a danger of retroactively setting expectations. Before the Euro-qualifiers kicked off, it was far from consensus that we'd qualify automatically. Plenty of folk on here thought we'd either not qualify or it would be a real dogfight between ourselves, Norway, and possibly even Georgia for 2nd place. Anecdotal obviously, but I remember looking at international forums and the consensus was generally that Norway would qualify ahead of us. Since we pished qualification and ended up giving Spain a bit of a run for their money for a while for 1st place, it's easy to look back on it all with an air of inevitability. That absolutely was not teh majority feeling before a ball was kicked. There was plenty talk of it being a good thiing we had the play-off spot in the bag, etc. I'm absolutely confident that Steve Clarke will be given the next trournament cycle, no matter what happens at teh finals this summer. it would be insanity on the part of the SFA to ditch him any time soon. Don't worry, they won't. No matter what happens at Euro-2024. No matter what fans think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Gordon EF said: Obviously i've got no idea what the SFA's metrics success are but I think there's a danger of retroactively setting expectations. Before the Euro-qualifiers kicked off, it was far from consensus that we'd qualify automatically. Plenty of folk on here thought we'd either not qualify or it would be a real dogfight between ourselves, Norway, and possibly even Georgia for 2nd place. Anecdotal obviously, but I remember looking at international forums and the consensus was generally that Norway would qualify ahead of us. Since we pished qualification and ended up giving Spain a bit of a run for their money for a while for 1st place, it's easy to look back on it all with an air of inevitability. That absolutely was not teh majority feeling before a ball was kicked. There was plenty talk of it being a good thiing we had the play-off spot in the bag, etc. I'm absolutely confident that Steve Clarke will be given the next trournament cycle, no matter what happens at teh finals this summer. it would be insanity on the part of the SFA to ditch him any time soon. I think your probably right, it would have to be some pretty bad results for that to happen. I suppose the increase in expectations is directly linked to better results and qualifications. So its a good thing. I dont think we should look back now and start lowering the standards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said: I think your probably right, it would have to be some pretty bad results for that to happen. I suppose the increase in expectations is directly linked to better results and qualifications. So its a good thing. I dont think we should look back now and start lowering the standards. We shouldn't. And if I was the SFA, I'd be making it clear that qualification for the Euros is the minimum expectation and progression from the group is the stretch goal, in terms of judging Stevie Clarke's performance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Gordon EF said: We shouldn't. And if I was the SFA, I'd be making it clear that qualification for the Euros is the minimum expectation and progression from the group is the stretch goal, in terms of judging Stevie Clarke's performance. The latest contract that runs until 2026 was agreed before the start of Euro 2024 qualifying. Can they change the criteria/terms? I think it might be something looked at in future contracts, but not for this tournament. I think that's fair and reasonable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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