Steve Clarke - in/out/general discussion

[54_and_counting]

13 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Earned the managers trust in and around the squad and when they've been given minutes on the pitch. Same as all the other players in the squad.

Yup ralston earned so much trust of Clarke that he's barely used him to the point he played mccrorie in his position away to Gibraltar 

[2426255]

32 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Yup ralston earned so much trust of Clarke that he's barely used him to the point he played mccrorie in his position away to Gibraltar 

Ross McCrorie hadn't played for Bristol City since 4-May. It was deemed McCrorie needed the game time more. Ralston subsequently played against Finland. Ralston has earned all of his caps under Clarke (Since Nov-2021) and his competition is Hickey and Patterson so he is at best third choice, playing a similar role to Taylor in the Scotland setup.

I trust that clears that up for you and you can be on your merry way.

Edited June 16 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

You've been out for Clarke's blood ever since Euro-2020. The manager carries the can, that's how it is whether I agree with that or not. If you want to pin  blame on him as you've been trying for years to do then knock yourself out. It's a collective thing in my view.

Why is there a need to pin blame and extract a pound of flesh exactly?

It's not a case of being out for anyones blood. There's 2 games to go and I'm hoping we can turn this around.

But as for the disaster of the Germany game yes the manager carries the can. And you can spend all day posting every excuse, but it's pissing in the wind.

Why is there a need to pin blame??

Because this isn't an everyone wins and gets a medal sports day so nobody is upset. it's the European Championship finals you absolute clown   

[2426255]

1 minute ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

It's not a case of being out for anyones blood. There's 2 games to go and I'm hoping we can turn this around.

But as for the disaster of the Germany game yes the manager carries the can. And you can spend all day posting every excuse, but it's pissing in the wind.

Why is there a need to pin blame??

Because this isn't an everyone wins and gets a medal sports day so nobody is upset. it's the European Championship finals you absolute clown   

I sense some bitterness directed towards me. Well best of luck with your campaign to oust him. To be fair Steve Clarke's had a great run and has been our best manager in decades, so while it's my preference for him to continue I'm not overly bothered if he chooses to leave as it's an intense job and it would be understandable if he wanted an easier life..

[54_and_counting]

45 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Ross McCrorie hadn't played for Bristol City since 4-May. It was deemed McCrorie needed the game time more. Ralston subsequently played against Finland. Ralston has earned all of his caps under Clarke (Since Nov-2021) and his competition is Hickey and Patterson so he is at best third choice, playing a similar role to Taylor in the Scotland setup.

I trust that clears that up for you and you can be on your merry way.

So even though clarke knew his first two choices for right back were out, and his 3rd choice had played 16mins in 3 months of club football, he decided to give a centre half/defensive mid the full 90 against Gibraltar in ralstons position instead of giving ralston as much game time as possible to get up to speed

And you dont see any issue in that at all? 

[2426255]

17 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

So even though clarke knew his first two choices for right back were out, and his 3rd choice had played 16mins in 3 months of club football, he decided to give a centre half/defensive mid the full 90 against Gibraltar in ralstons position instead of giving ralston as much game time as possible to get up to speed

And you dont see any issue in that at all? 

Ross McCrorie is playing more as a wing back/full back with Bristol City as far as I'm aware. I've taken that on trust as I don't have time to watch Bristol City, maybe you know better? As a whole I accept Steve Clarke's loyalty system and decision making and don't think I know better than him. If Clarke thinks that it was better to start McCrorie instead of Ralston against Gibraltar then it's not something I object to. I don't have access to the data and medical information nor do I have access to the decision making process.

Most things with him I'm happy to take on trust essentially. I trust him to make decisions like that because I believe him to be a very capable manager with the best interests of the team at heart. He has earned my loyalty you might say. Think about how you felt about Walter Smith when he was in charge of Rangers. You trusted him. It's like that for me with Clarke and Scotland.

Edited June 16 by 2426255

[1320Lichtie]

Clarkes been excellent for Scotland and I really like the guy. However things have been pretty fkn shite recently and I realise it’s a combination of playing very good opposition and also being shite so it’s not been completely shite etc etc etc…

 

The one thing that’s really annoyed me for so long is the fact that we’ve had all these friendlies and not once moved away or tried something different to the 3-5-2. The 3-5-2 when it works is great but we really have not got much joy out of it in recent times and when that happens there’s literally nothing we can do. A go to subbie is Kenny McLean punted on and the shape kept exactly the same. 
 

All these friendlies and we’ve never once changed it up to a 4 at the back with a different shape in midfield when we’re so strong in there. Why not try that, even if one of the 2 centre halves was KT. Guys like Forrest and Morgan are in the squad and Doak was also there at one point but where the hell are they supposed to play if they come on? Just off of the striker?
 

Also feel like Dykes suits the 3-5-2 so much better than any of the other strikers by a fair bit, him playing has helped McGinn and McTominay get their goals and then when he’s no playing were not as good in that set up. 
 

I know it’s a minor gripe and would’ve made little difference to Friday night but I feel like in all of these friendlies (against decent opposition and no the likes of Gibraltar) we’ve never really taken any time to try something different so that we can change it up. 
 

All the chat is always over who misses out in midfield but a midfield of 

 

McGregor

Gilmour 

 

McGinn 

McTominay

Christie 

 

Behind a striker sounds great to me.

 

Point being getting a bit fed up of how rigid and stuck in his ways Clarke has been recently and I don’t think we’ve prepared well for this tournament at all through choice of friendlies we’ve taken on and different options in regards to both players and set ups. 
 

If we are 1-0 down on Wednesday with 20 to go the man up top will get changed and Kenny McLean will replace whoever’s been poorest in midfield - frustrating me 

 

 

[Kadouken_]

Moyes isn’t going to do anything different to Clarke apart from more long balls and playing McTominay almost up alongside Dykes. 
 

The next manager has to be a modern manager that will build the team around Gilmour and start introducing young talent early and not just picking his favourites out of loyalty. 
 

Callum McGregor not getting a cap until 24 and Lewis Ferguson not even having 100 minutes of competitive football in a Scotland shirt at 25 years old is ridiculous and just a couple of examples of the problem. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

I sense some bitterness directed towards me. Well best of luck with your campaign to oust him. To be fair Steve Clarke's had a great run and has been our best manager in decades, so while it's my preference for him to continue I'm not overly bothered if he chooses to leave as it's an intense job and it would be understandable if he wanted an easier life..

Again your putting words in people's mouths and talking rubbish, it's boring.

Clarke has shown throughout his tenure that he's able to turn things around and get results when they aren't expected. So I'm hoping he can do that again.

After the Germany game I'm less confident than i was, but still hopeful. If we lose then we're out and it would be time to start discussing his future.

[velo army]

I get some are frustrated at Clarke's perceived inflexibility. We have switched to a back 4 in previous games too, but not so much in the friendlies.

I don't think a new manager comes in and does anything different. It's no coincidence that the big failures of this system have been Ukraine a couple of years back and Friday night. Our key players have been overplayed or aren't fit. We don't have the strength in depth to account for that. 

There's the chat about loyalty too which is disproved by the fact that he has dropped guys who aren't in form. There isn't anyone who has been left out that you would argue should be playing. 

Nah, I don't like the result on Friday, and the friendlies have been shite, but I fail to see what another manager would do with these players.

[2426255]

6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Clarkes been excellent for Scotland and I really like the guy. However things have been pretty fkn shite recently and I realise it’s a combination of playing very good opposition and also being shite so it’s not been completely shite etc etc etc…

 

The one thing that’s really annoyed me for so long is the fact that we’ve had all these friendlies and not once moved away or tried something different to the 3-5-2. The 3-5-2 when it works is great but we really have not got much joy out of it in recent times and when that happens there’s literally nothing we can do. A go to subbie is Kenny McLean punted on and the shape kept exactly the same. 
 

All these friendlies and we’ve never once changed it up to a 4 at the back with a different shape in midfield when we’re so strong in there. Why not try that, even if one of the 2 centre halves was KT. Guys like Forrest and Morgan are in the squad and Doak was also there at one point but where the hell are they supposed to play if they come on? Just off of the striker?
 

Also feel like Dykes suits the 3-5-2 so much better than any of the other strikers by a fair bit, him playing has helped McGinn and McTominay get their goals and then when he’s no playing were not as good in that set up. 
 

I know it’s a minor gripe and would’ve made little difference to Friday night but I feel like in all of these friendlies (against decent opposition and no the likes of Gibraltar) we’ve never really taken any time to try something different so that we can change it up. 
 

All the chat is always over who misses out in midfield but a midfield of 

 

McGregor

Gilmour 

 

McGinn 

McTominay

Christie 

 

Behind a striker sounds great to me.

 

Point being getting a bit fed up of how rigid and stuck in his ways Clarke has been recently and I don’t think we’ve prepared well for this tournament at all through choice of friendlies we’ve taken on and different options in regards to both players and set ups. 
 

If we are 1-0 down on Wednesday with 20 to go the man up top will get changed and Kenny McLean will replace whoever’s been poorest in midfield - frustrating me 

 

 

To be fair we played with a back-4 against Georgia and played precisely that midfield that you wanted. We played well enough, but needed Shankland to score a last minute equaliser. It might look good on paper, but that doesn't mean anything as we all are well aware. It's not a silver bullet.

Spoiler

[2426255]

4 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

After the Germany game I'm less confident than i was, but still hopeful. If we lose then we're out and it would be time to start discussing his future.

You can't wait can you. I bet you have champagne on ice.

[1320Lichtie]

14 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

To be fair we played with a back-4 against Georgia and played precisely that midfield that you wanted. We played well enough, but needed Shankland to score a last minute equaliser. It might look good on paper, but that doesn't mean anything as we all are well aware. It's not a silver bullet.

 

  Hide contents

No Robertson or Tierney there and no real attempt or run at having it (or another way of playing) as a different option  - also not saying it’s a silver bullet that will solve all our problems but we’ve got nowhere to go when things aren’t working at the moment

 

Whole thing is built on and relies on KT and Robertson having good games especially now Dykes and Hickey are unavailable

Edited June 16 by 1320Lichtie

[Ewanandmoreagain]

1 hour ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

It's not a case of being out for anyones blood. There's 2 games to go and I'm hoping we can turn this around.

But as for the disaster of the Germany game yes the manager carries the can. And you can spend all day posting every excuse, but it's pissing in the wind.

Why is there a need to pin blame??

Because this isn't an everyone wins and gets a medal sports day so nobody is upset. it's the European Championship finals you absolute clown   

Because it was a sporting disaster 

[2426255]

2 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

No Robertson or Tierney there and no real attempt or run at having it (or another way of playing) as a different opinion  - also not saying it’s a silver bullet that will solve all our problems but we’ve got nowhere to go when things aren’t working at the moment

 

Whole thing is built on and relies on KT and Robertson having good games especially now Dykes and Hickey are unavailable

We used it for both the Norway and Georgia games, so for the whole camp and it was okay. We also go to a back-4 if we need to chase the game. We did it famously in Oslo, but also less famously against Northern Ireland, Spain from memory and if you want to go back to 2022 we used it to beat Ukraine and Ireland in Sep-22 along with an excellent draw against Ukraine in Poland.

For what it's worth Clarke is probably looking to use it more in the future and he said that was part of the thinking behind using it in the Gibraltar game. The general point I'm trying to make was simply that we have seen what you're asking for, it's in the toolbox. Obviously not used as much as you'd like and with caveats when it is, but it's definitely in there.

[No_Problemo]

21 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

To be fair we played with a back-4 against Georgia and played precisely that midfield that you wanted. We played well enough, but needed Shankland to score a last minute equaliser. It might look good on paper, but that doesn't mean anything as we all are well aware. It's not a silver bullet.

  Hide contents

Didn’t we play a back four against Gibraltar too?

ETA, posted after your post above!

Edited June 16 by No_Problemo

[1320Lichtie]

Just now, 2426255 said:

We used it for both the Norway and Georgia games, so for the whole camp and it was okay. We also go to a back-4 if we need to chase the game. We did it famously in Oslo, but also less famously against Northern Ireland, Spain from memory and if you want to go back to 2022 we used it to beat Ukraine and Ireland in Sep-22 along with an excellent draw against Ukraine in Poland.

For what it's worth Clarke is probably looking to use it more in the future and he said that was part of the thinking behind using it in the Gibraltar game. The general point I'm trying to make was simply that we have seen what you're asking for, it's in the toolbox. Obviously not used as much as you'd like and with caveats when it is, but it's definitely in there.

Fair points - I am just getting incredibly frustrated. I kind of looked past the results recently because of both the opposition and the fact Clarke had a lot of credit in the bank but looking at the bench and the way we play. When it’s not happening it’s chronically bad to watch and we’ve got such a strong midfield. 

[Groundhopping Adventures]

Gauld scores twice for Vancouver today. Clarke must condem

[2426255]

3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Fair points - I am just getting incredibly frustrated. I kind of looked past the results recently because of both the opposition and the fact Clarke had a lot of credit in the bank but looking at the bench and the way we play. When it’s not happening it’s chronically bad to watch and we’ve got such a strong midfield. 

Yeah I understand that. Probably no easy answer to your dilemma. I always try to back the team particularly in difficult periods, that's when they need it most. Good luck with whatever road you decide to go down.

[1320Lichtie]

4 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Yeah I understand that. Probably no easy answer to your dilemma. I always try to back the team particularly in difficult periods, that's when they need it most. Good luck with whatever road you decide to go down.

It is like we’ve never really recovered since the Netherlands game to be honest. Went into that and played very well and looked confident until it went Pete Tong and then we’ve been utter pish ever since. I know that’s only a handful of games ago but the drop offs been huge.
 

Need to turn it around soon otherwise this nations league won’t be much fun. Also need to work on gettinv some more solid options in the bag for when things aren’t going well because right now we are just getting stuck with nowhere to go.

 

Fingers crossed there is a big and good reaction on Wednesday

Edited June 16 by 1320Lichtie