Vimto90 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Clarke has done an OK job and no more imo. Our historical failure to qualify has clouded peoples thoughts on how good he has actually done. The euros are now easier than ever to qualify for with the nations league there as a back door route which we obviously used in 2021. We have players now where we can at least go to tournaments and give a decent showing and maybe sneak out the groups. We need to see that in the next two games or I am happy for a fresh start at the helm. Feels very much like when we qualified and the TA can have a party that was job done. Loser mentality & nonsense. Edited June 17 by Vimto90 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 13 minutes ago, Vimto90 said: Clarke has done an OK job and no more imo. Our historical failure to qualify has clouded peoples thoughts on how good he has actually done. The euros are now easier than ever to qualify for with the nations league there as a back door route which we obviously used in 2021. We have players now where we can at least go to tournaments and give a decent showing and maybe sneak out the groups. We need to see that in the next two games or I am happy for a fresh start at the helm. Feels very much like when we qualified and the TA can have a party that was job done. Loser mentality & nonsense. yeah, as good as qualifying was, if it was the old 16 team format then 2nd would only have gotten us a playoff, would we have won that hypothetical play off? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Vimto90 said: Loser mentality & nonsense. Fucking hell mate. You sound like a Rangers fan. Listen to yourself. We have to be at our best in tournament football to get out of a group, assuming one of our competitors doesn't implode, even with three qualifying. If it was only two getting out of the group our odds would decrease significantly. Every measure available points towards Scotland being the weakest team in this group including how Scotland have performed in the last tournament. We played nearer our minimum than our maximum against Germany and were well beaten. Even if we play close to our maximum against Switzerland and Hungary there is a fair chance we won't win. We have some good players, so do all the other teams in our group. If we play to our best we have a chance, that's all. You can't just mentality yourself over the line. As a Stenhousemuir fan you should know all that. Edited June 17 by 2426255 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 13 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: yeah, as good as qualifying was, if it was the old 16 team format then 2nd would only have gotten us a playoff, would we have won that hypothetical play off? If all ifs and buts were candy and nuts… You needed to be in the top 16 to qualify in the old format and now you need to be in the top 16 to make the knockouts. Current evidence is we aren’t going to manage that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimto90 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 38 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Fucking hell mate. You sound like a Rangers fan. Listen to yourself. We have to be at our best in tournament football to get out of a group, assuming one of our competitors doesn't implode, even with three qualifying. If it was only two getting out of the group our odds would decrease significantly. Every measure available points towards Scotland being the weakest team in this group including how Scotland have performed in the last tournament. We played nearer our minimum than our maximum against Germany and were well beaten. Even if we play close to our maximum against Switzerland and Hungary there is a fair chance we won't win. We have some good players, so do all the other teams in our group. If we play to our best we have a chance, that's all. You can't just mentality yourself over the line. As a Stenhousemuir fan you should know all that. Take a deep breath & read my post again. "A decent showing" was the first point with a potential SNEAK out the groups second. That seems pretty level headed in my book. You have went on a bizarre rant over nothing. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 13 minutes ago, Vimto90 said: Take a deep breath & read my post again. "A decent showing" was the first point with a potential SNEAK out the groups second. That seems pretty level headed in my book. You have went on a bizarre rant over nothing. It was a the loser mentality part that sounded rangersy, which is why that was the only part I quoted. Fair enough though, you're only expecting a decent showing and potential to sneak out the groups and I agree with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) David Moyes is officially the 3rd most successful manager in West Ham's history. He also recently won a European trophy. Contrary to popular belief, Moyes wasn't "hated by all West Ham" fans. The opposite in fact, en mass, they are grateful to him for giving them the best day of their lives. Most were just frustrated by the football on show. It wasn't personal. My prediction, though, once the new West Ham manager gets his feet under the table and West Ham begin to play the exiting attacking football the fans want, they'll sack him mid-season, as they'll be in the bottom three. Then for the second time they'll call out an SOS to David Moyes to save them from a relegation battle. I wouldn't read anything into the West Ham detractors. They're ingrates. I would take David Moyes in a heartbeat. Edited June 17 by SlayerX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkirkBairn2021 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Moves would be a great appointment. If we lose to Switzerland and Hungary we can't persist with Clarke. Any other scenario and I think he stays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Mr Heliums said: Football is Scotland's predominant national sport, whether participating or spectating. In (eg) Switzerland I get the sense of a broader sporting interest – I think their ice hockey league games get average attendances approaching 10k and loads participate in winter sports, handball etc. Imagine it would be similar in other continental countries. TL:DR: All other things being equal, we should be outperforming similarly sized countries because we're obsessed with one sport. So you think we should be beating other nations because we like football more than them or because we don't like other sports as much? Maybe participating across a wide range of sports especially at youth level would make our professional athletes better. The Belgian FA make a big thing about their youths taking part in multi sports. Lots of US college athletes take part in multi sports to the point that it is not uncommon to see some having a choice of what sports draft that they go into. You've also just gave me an example of a country that like multi sports which backs up my point. Seeing some youth coaches frothing at the mouth when their under 11 side don't win on a Saturday morning, I sometimes think our obsession may be more of a hindrance than a benefit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 The problem with discussing options about what's next is that there are pretty much no options (at least ones the SFA would consider) that we know, with evidence, would take to international football. There's numerous examples of great managers who did not make the transition well at all. Would Moyes be a good option? Purely on feeling, it would be a bit meh for me, but we simply don't know what he'd be like managing Scotland. Maybe he'd take to it brilliantly. Maybe he'd be shite. We simply can't know. The best thing the SFA ever had going was the time (or two times, if I remember right) that Lars Lagerback expressed an interest. Proven international manager at our kind of level, and could have been an all timer. But I expect we'll just filter by Scottish again and just hope it works for a few years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Irrespective of who the manager is, when the dust has settled and the Euros are over I would move Hickey to the no 6/anchorman position. Both Thomas frank and Levein have both said that he'll eventually play there. So why not now. A pairing of Hickey and Gilmour has potential. And lets be honest, Hickey is going to move from Brentford sooner or later. He is far too good for them. Hopefully Barron goes to Serie A as he'll learn a lot over there. He should've been a part of the 26. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 11 minutes ago, SlayerX said: Irrespective of who the manager is, when the dust has settled and the Euros are over I would move Hickey to the no 6/anchorman position. Both Thomas frank and Levein have both said that he'll eventually play there. So why not now. A pairing of Hickey and Gilmour has potential. And lets be honest, Hickey is going to move from Brentford sooner or later. He is far too good for them. Hopefully Barron goes to Serie A as he'll learn a lot over there. He should've been a part of the 26. I don't think moving the only decent right back to a new position is the best idea tbh 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 19 minutes ago, gannonball said: I don't think moving the only decent right back to a new position is the best idea tbh He’ll play inverted RB eventually, you just don’t play with an inverter in a back three shape. The next evolution of this team is playing 4-3-3 without the ball that morphs into a 3-2-4-1 with the ball. Hickey and Gilmour will be the pivot. It probably requires either dropping one of Robertson or Tierney or playing Robertson further forward. Doak coming into the team will help with this as well. In a few years time I could see us having a lineup of something like Gunn Hickey - Porteous - Hendry - Tierney McTominay - Gilmour - McGinn Doak - Adams - Robertson That’s our off the ball shape, and then Hickey inverts into a double pivot with Gilmour when we have the ball, then the four man midfield of Doak-McT-McGinn-Robertson is the support of Che Adams. Edited June 17 by JS_FFC -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadouken_ Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Pretty sure West Ham had a bigger budget than the rest of the whole tournament put together when they won that trophy. Even then they got played off the park and didn’t deserve to win it. We need to do something completely different and get someone in the mould of a Bielsa who’s going to change everything about the national team and set up and bring give young players opportunities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, forameus said: The problem with discussing options about what's next is that there are pretty much no options (at least ones the SFA would consider) that we know, with evidence, would take to international football. There's numerous examples of great managers who did not make the transition well at all. Would Moyes be a good option? Purely on feeling, it would be a bit meh for me, but we simply don't know what he'd be like managing Scotland. Maybe he'd take to it brilliantly. Maybe he'd be shite. We simply can't know. The best thing the SFA ever had going was the time (or two times, if I remember right) that Lars Lagerback expressed an interest. Proven international manager at our kind of level, and could have been an all timer. But I expect we'll just filter by Scottish again and just hope it works for a few years. Im hoping for del boy McInnis. 442, little and large up top, man to man marking and a team of absolute grafters. Pin the ball up near the corner flag and play for second balls. Graft, Thunder, blood and guts. No fancy crap. Robbie Deas, Danny Armstrong and we could find big Kyle Vassell a scottish granny. Pot-1 here we come. Edited June 17 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pub car king Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Clarke has done as well as any Scotland manager and we have had some great ones over the years, but ultimately none of them have managed to progress beyond the group stages and with far far better players at their disposal. If/when he goes we should at least look beyond this country for a coach who can progress our game. Berti Vogts was over 20 years ago and he inherited the worst Scotland set up there has ever been. I doubt many managers could have turned that around and he still got us to a play off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I'm not getting what folk think would be different under a new man. We would still have the same players and would still be weak at centre back, necessitating a back 3. Bringing through new players is obviously inevitable, but it seems fallacious to assume a new manager is needed too. "Freshness" for its own sake doesn't seem entirely sensible to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Please don’t make anyone from Ayrshire the Scotland manager again. They’re too negative. Edited June 17 by MazzyStar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Make Ayrshire the Scotland Again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 (edited) 10 minutes ago, velo army said: I'm not getting what folk think would be different under a new man. We would still have the same players and would still be weak at centre back, necessitating a back 3. Bringing through new players is obviously inevitable, but it seems fallacious to assume a new manager is needed too. "Freshness" for its own sake doesn't seem entirely sensible to me. He's been in the job 5 years, an achievement in itself. The grass isn't always greener. I doubt he'll do another 5, so I think keeping an eye on it is fair and reasonable. I think it's more about when he's had enough or wants to try something else rather than us 'upgrading'. Edited June 17 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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