Steve Clarke - in/out/general discussion

[Young Eddie]

13 hours ago, BB_Bino said:

Very strange post, as this is exactly what is being done at Grassroots level. Our youngsters play non-competitive 4 aside, non-competitive 5 aside, non-competitive 7 aside, non-competitive 9 aside then at the age of 12/13 move into competitive 11 aside on full size pitches.  You also have companies such as Coerver & Box Soccer making a fortune in hammering home the message of ball mastery and providing the ethos to some of the countries biggest academies, including Rangers and Hearts, and who knows how many 1-1 or Small Group training companies have popped up over the years, working on skills.

Go on ANY SFA coaching course on the youth pathway, and they'll hammer home the message that young players should be exposed to equal game time in every position, that they should be comfortable on the ball and that we should be playing a modern brand of football etc etc, however if coaches go back to their teams and implement something different or decide to stick to the old Scottish traditions then there's nothing the SFA can do about that, out with the performance schools.

In 17 years of working in grassroots and youth development football, I've met some of the worst people with the worst attitudes, but I have also met some of the best. The SFA have no control, they can only tell you what they would like but ultimately it's up to the teams and clubs on what they do. The leagues, follow what the SFA tell them, so again, not much they can do either.

Where I would agree with your statement is in Goalkeeping. We've got boys 2ft 0 standing in full sized goals at 9 a-side and in 1st and 2nd year at High School football, why?? Have a look on any grassroots advertising pages on Facebook and you'll see a lack of keepers throughout the age group....no wonder, the position is completely overlooked throughout, then when a lot of kids decide they would like to do it, they're stuck in full sized goals, shots go over their heads and they walk away from the game/position. I have raised this point with Fraser Stewart (SFA Head of Goalkeeping) via 3 different emails since 2018 and still await a reply on the reason why.....although the SFA Officer in my area informs me it's due to lack of facilities.

A few years back, there was a big shift in Youth Development in this country, it may have been under Malky Mackay's time or it may have been slightly before, but they called it Project Brave. It be honest, in my opinion the SFA tried to implement good things, they tried to move away from all the stereotypes but they can only do so much. If a grassroot coach doesn't give a young player all the tools to put in his toolbag to use on a match day, then that's down to the coach (and you've got to question why they are involved in the first place)......however if the parent can also see this happening from the sidelines then they can also intervene and move that young footballer to another team who do (they must take some responsibility in the decision makings) although believe it or not, I have probably come across more parents that encourage the stereotypical behaviours than discourage it. The amount of young players that move around clubs because they are winning, is frightening. Their own development is overlooked for the short term success, also, the amount of clubs that just want to recruit players rather than develop them, just to send them to big academies, is also frightening. Anyone involved in grassroots football will know how much of a thankless task it is, and anyone involved will have seen exactly this, again, the SFA can't control this imho.

You also get the older ages groups, the u20's & u18's, a large number of the players that make it to this level, pro-youth or otherwise, are very good technical players. Comfortable on the ball and well drilled in playing. Very often on a Friday night or Sunday, I'll watch players where I just don't get why they are not in and about the First Team. I've watched u20's on a Friday night and watched better football than the First Team on a Saturday, yet every summer these squads are emptied and the next crop come through and the cycle repeats. First Team managers in this country simply don't give (enough) kids an opportunity, but I will leave this part for another day.

I'm not saying the SFA are perfect and do no wrong, I don't believe that at all. However, I think they are trying to do the right things but are restricted because they have no real power over the clubs and how they are run.

Excellent post mate. I may have sounded off in frustration at what I imagined was going on but you obviously know the grassroots scene really well and it sounds like we are doing a lot of things right, which is really encouraging. It's still frustrating that we can't consistently produce top players and have the right coach to organise them effectively in the national side.

[DiegoDiego]

2 hours ago, Chripper said:

People who are blaming Clarke for our weaknesses are wrong. It's not black and white.

A massive part of the blame lies with the SPL 

The SPL died years ago, the blame lies not with them.

[Chripper]

I'd also expand the SPL* to 18 teams.

But as I said, the clubs have to be forced. There's too much selfish self interest in Scottish football.

Scottish football clubs would rather survive than thrive. Then there's the Old Firm thinking they're buying clubs.

All in all,Scottish football needs a root and branch reset.

*I refuse to call it the "Scottish Premiership" as it sounds way too fancy than what it Is.

I'd rather call it the "Scottish Duopoly Snorefest" or SDS for short.

Edited June 25 by Chripper

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Get rid of the racist muppet. Send him back to the SPFL.

Parking the bus and conceding 7 goals in 3 games is an embarrassment. Even Albania, in the group of death made a better fist of it.

We need to plan for the World Cup in 2026 and Clarke's "boys" like Hanley, McGregor, Hendry are done.

[the snudge]

3 hours ago, SH Panda said:

Pretty much no nation consistently produces top players, and certainly none our size.

Even the best nations invariably have some (relatively) crap players.

Croatia, Uruguay, Denmark, Serbia,

[JS_FFC]

18 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Croatia, Uruguay, Denmark, Serbia,

Serbia is a ropey shout. Yes they’ve made four of the last five world cups, but they were knocked out in the groups of all of them. This is their first euros since 2000 which was the last time they played in a knockout tie at any tournament. They were also a much bigger country back then and losing the Croatians (and Bosnians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Slovenians and Kosovans) has hurt them massively. 

 

 

Yes they’ve been better than us for the past 20 years, but not significantly so. 
 

We absolutely should be learning lessons from the Croatians, the Danes and the Uruguayans, and also from the Belgians, Dutch and Portuguese (each of those nations have 2-3 times our population massively punch above their weight). 

 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

I'm bemused more hasn't been made of Clarke's Farage moment. 

That's a sackable offence even if he was good. 

Probably the most disgraceful comment by a Scotland manager in my lifetime. 

Get yourself to Clacton to campaign with Reform.

[Crùbag]

13 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

No, he doesn’t. 

The absolute definition of a lazy appointment, and just appointing the first bog standard Scottish manager you see.

 

I don't think you read my post.

You certainly didn't convince me with your own suggestion. 

[JS_FFC]

The next 4 years are completely predictable with Clarke. That Einstein quote about insanity applies perfectly here.

 

 

Clarke won’t get us to the World Cup. You need to be a top 16 side in Europe to do that and he has CONSISTENTLY proven an inability to do that. His level is right in that 17-24 bucket and has been for four years how’s an almost incredible lack of progress.

 

Then we probably will make 2028, especially due to the automatic fallback places. We will go out in the groups again after failing to win a game. Slow start, smidgeon of hope after a draw in game 2, abject failure on the last game. Thats the Clarke formula.

 

In most other European countries we wouldn’t even be having this debate 36 hours on because he’d have been sacked on Sunday night. It’s completely absurd that people want to sign up for even more of this. We’ll be a complete laughing stock of European football if we rock up to the nations league in September with the same manager in charge that has consistently proven that he’s reached his level. 

[Dons_1988]

This thread has gone wild. 

Bemused and saddened to see Aberdeen being blamed for Sunday night. 

[Old Bing]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This thread has gone wild. 

Bemused and saddened to see Aberdeen being blamed for Sunday night. 

Personally I don't think we've even touched the sides of how the bypass has been so detrimental to the national team.

[Old Bing]

5 minutes ago, SH Panda said:

 

All of them, even at there very best, have had crap players who probably wouldn't even make the Scotland squad.

As you would expect with a small nation.

We actually have a better head to head record against both Croatia and Denmark (far better in the case of the latter). For Serbia it's 50-50 but we beat them in the last match. Uruguay are 1 win ahead of us, but we also beat them in the last match.

Not too shabby.

Yeah who needs to progress in tournaments, or actually winning a world cup. 

[VictorOnopko]

49 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

I'm bemused more hasn't been made of Clarke's Farage moment. 

That's a sackable offence even if he was good. 

Probably the most disgraceful comment by a Scotland manager in my lifetime. 

Get yourself to Clacton to campaign with Reform.

Apart from being irrational, ill-informed (he could easily have asked the ref, who speaks English, but chose to moan about nationality instead) and downright racist, what struck me about Clarke's head's gone moment was that in the past, his chippiness and dourness with reporters has been assumed to be a sign of a deep thinking manager who lets the results speak for themselves. Too cool to answer these silly questions, etc. He's had a pass for his overall demeanour because he's qualified us twice. 

But this time, after a humiliating week and a bit in Germany, he showed us the guy behind the mask.  Nasty and clueless, basically, and lashing out in a desperate attempt to throw up a smokescreen for our utter, relentless shitness under him at these finals. I wonder if we'll have any reflection or regret expressed by him in the weeks/months to come about his terrible, rigid, ultra-negative tactics? I doubt it.

Edited June 25 by VictorOnopko

[Old Bing]

Just now, SH Panda said:

Pretty good chance none of those countries will ever win a world cup, or come close.

Uruguay last did so in 1950. The smallest nation since them is Argentina, 9 Scotland's size.

Yeah pretty good chance they won't, but one has

[Dons_1988]

26 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Personally I don't think we've even touched the sides of how the bypass has been so detrimental to the national team.

Don’t let me stop you 

[2426255]

36 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

The next 4 years are completely predictable with Clarke. That Einstein quote about insanity applies perfectly here.

 

 

Clarke won’t get us to the World Cup. You need to be a top 16 side in Europe to do that and he has CONSISTENTLY proven an inability to do that. His level is right in that 17-24 bucket and has been for four years how’s an almost incredible lack of progress.

 

Then we probably will make 2028, especially due to the automatic fallback places. We will go out in the groups again after failing to win a game. Slow start, smidgeon of hope after a draw in game 2, abject failure on the last game. Thats the Clarke formula.

 

In most other European countries we wouldn’t even be having this debate 36 hours on because he’d have been sacked on Sunday night. It’s completely absurd that people want to sign up for even more of this. We’ll be a complete laughing stock of European football if we rock up to the nations league in September with the same manager in charge that has consistently proven that he’s reached his level. 

Donathan, you're going off the reservation with that post.

[Old Bing]

17 minutes ago, SH Panda said:

Pretty good chance none of those countries will ever win a world cup again, or come close.

Uruguay last did so in 1950. The smallest nation since them is Argentina, 9x Scotland's size.

Much more likely than us as they are capable of getting to the later rounds.

If your argument is because historically we don't have a bad record against them it's poor. They are much more successful than us. 

[Elgin Macca]

Its mental to think we were a terrible refereeing decision away from creating history and Clarke and the players being hero's. ( no one is going to convince me that wasn't a penalty). If you're auntie had baws and all that....

(I'm still too angry/emotional to discuss Clarke/tactics/players etc)

[Old Bing]

4 minutes ago, Elgin Macca said:

Its mental to think we were a terrible refereeing decision away from creating history and Clarke and the players being hero's. ( no one is going to convince me that wasn't a penalty). If you're auntie had baws and all that....

(I'm still too angry/emotional to discuss Clarke/tactics/players etc)

Yeah I'd say it was a penalty, but he should have just shot instead of waiting on the contact. It's a bad decision by armstrong as well as the referee.

[Lex]

14 hours ago, Gaz said:

Also, I refuse to believe that man-for-man you'd have Hungary ahead of us on squad talent, so why were we being outplayed by them for large parts of the game?

Because they were a better coached side than us. They certainly didn't have better players.