Who’s on the plane?

[2426255]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It would be interesting to see how the age profile compares to other squads? @2426255 that sounds like your kind of thing?

It's not, sorry. 

[allyo]

48 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

@2426255

There aren't all that many in the current squad for whom this is their last tournament necessarily. Gordon certainly. Forrest, Cooper, Hanley, Armstrong, McLean, Jack probably.

If Craig Brown was in charge these guys would be fine for another 3 campaigns

Edited May 28 by allyo

[2426255]

According to the BBC one of the goalkeepers will not be on the plane.

Quote

Clarke confirmed one of the four goalkeepers in his provisional squad will miss out.

Nick McPheat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1vv4y3yz01o

Spoiler

Edited May 29 by 2426255

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

According to the BBC one of the goalkeepers will not be on the plane.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1vv4y3yz01o

  Reveal hidden contents

As it should be. Interesting there's no quote and we've not previously heard this definitively I think unless it's referring to his comments on selecting all four for the March friendlies when I think he did say that.

I'm not sure Greg Taylor's quite as sure a selection as that article implies but I do expect him to go. The other left out will be one of the centre backs (Souttar probably) or Jack or Doak or Forrest unless Armstrong's injury doesn't quite clear up (same also true of Souttar of course).

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

According to the BBC one of the goalkeepers will not be on the plane.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1vv4y3yz01o

  Reveal hidden contents

What that makes Nagelsmann now then?

[JS_FFC]

Kelly and Souttar will be the drops unless anyone else gets injured in the friendlies/training or their current injury is deemed too severe. I’m pretty sure of it.

[2426255]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Interesting there's no quote and we've not previously heard this definitively I think unless it's referring to his comments on selecting all four for the March friendlies when I think he did say that.

I'm not sure where it's come from, but perhaps Clarke has done some written press yesterday and the Journalist has revealed the information prematurely.

I find it stranger that he said a few days ago that it would depend on x, y and z. To go against his previous comments so soon is odd. Perhaps something has changed recently meaning that he will require the outfield cover and can't spare a place on a 4th goalkeeper. I don't know how else that could be interpreted. If he never had any intention of taking a fourth goalkeeper, then why not just say that 6 days ago? and why say it now? 

[Butters Scotch]

32 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

Kelly and Souttar will be the drops unless anyone else gets injured in the friendlies/training or their current injury is deemed too severe. I’m pretty sure of it.

I can see him taking Gordon due to his experience and it's a toss up between Kelly and Clark, honestly no clue on who is weaker out the two and both a bit meh.

A number of CB's have been either injury prone this season or had little gametime for club and country but you'd think it will be either Cooper, Hanley or Souttar who would be the most likely to be dropped. I can't see Clarke dropping Hanley as he's one of our better CB's when fit and If Souttar is not 100% then it makes it an easier decision to make out of the two of Cooper and Souttar.

I just hope he keeps Doak and the likes of Forrest and not play it ultra safe. 

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

As it should be. Interesting there's no quote and we've not previously heard this definitively I think unless it's referring to his comments on selecting all four for the March friendlies when I think he did say that.

I'm not sure Greg Taylor's quite as sure a selection as that article implies but I do expect him to go. The other left out will be one of the centre backs (Souttar probably) or Jack or Doak or Forrest unless Armstrong's injury doesn't quite clear up (same also true of Souttar of course).

I want to know if anyone actually thinks Zander Clark has been an outstanding performer this season.  I think he’s been only slightly less ropey than Kelly. 

[Skyline Drifter]

9 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

I can see him taking Gordon due to his experience and it's a toss up between Kelly and Clark, honestly no clue on who is weaker out the two and both a bit meh.

 

8 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I want to know if anyone actually thinks Zander Clark has been an outstanding performer this season.  I think he’s been only slightly less ropey than Kelly. 

Regardless of personal opinions, I can't imagine why anyone would think Clark isn't a stick on to be in the squad. In playing him in both the last two group games in Gunn's absence Clarke made it clear he's ahead of Kelly. He's also very clearly still number one at Hearts ahead of a fit Craig Gordon. Zander Clark's in no danger of not going to Germany.

The question here is weighing Gordon's greater experience and ability compared to Kelly against his lack of game time, age, fitness against a much younger player who played every minute of his club season and has been a faithful stalwart of squads for several years and may be for several more (though if he sticks himself on Rangers bench for the next few seasons he's probably ending his own international career). Gordon's international career surely ends in the next 12 months regardless. I don't think that's an easy call though personally I'd take Gordon.

Edited May 29 by Skyline Drifter

[2426255]

1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said:

What that makes Nagelsmann now then?

Germany have taken four goalkeepers. France and Belgium have taken only 25 players. Clarke stated he was considering the idea of using a space for a fourth goalkeeper. There must be some reason behind it. I don't think you can say Nagelsmann, Deschamps and Tedesco are all batshit crazy.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Germany have taken four goalkeepers. France and Belgium have taken only 25 players. Clarke stated he was considering the idea of using a space for a fourth goalkeeper. There must be some reason behind it. I don't think you can say Nagelsmann, Deschamps and Tedesco are all batshit crazy.

I'm not sure why these are being considered in the same vein, they're not the same.

Personally I think Nagelsmann is batshit crazy. Naming a 4th keeper is pointless (*caveat below). Take a training keeper if you want. You can call him in if injury requires it.

The other two presumable have decided they don't need a 26th player ot to faff about pulling one in. That might be because they have a tight group already set and they don't really want to integrate extra now, I wouldn't know. Personally I don't see the harm in taking a young player for experience (the Doak approach) but if they don't want to that's their call.

* caveat - It may be Nagelsmann is the same of course and then decided he may as well take a 4th keeper in the 26th slot. That would make some sense I suppose but given he named a larger squad and said he'd drop an outfield player it doesn't really.

[Butters Scotch]

8 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Germany have taken four goalkeepers. France and Belgium have taken only 25 players. Clarke stated he was considering the idea of using a space for a fourth goalkeeper. There must be some reason behind it. I don't think you can say Nagelsmann, Deschamps and Tedesco are all batshit crazy.

I was only jesting but the difference being is that these countries have a ridiculous amount of quality players and have the depth to do bring an additional goalie for shooting practice.

We don't have that same luxury and have some injuries so every outfield player we are bringing will likely play a part in the minimum three games we have maybe barring a couple of the centre backs. 

[Butters Scotch]

19 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

Regardless of personal opinions, I can't imagine why anyone would think Clark isn't a stick on to be in the squad. In playing him in both the last two group games in Gunn's absence Clarke made it clear he's ahead of Kelly. He's also very clearly still number one at Hearts ahead of a fit Craig Gordon. Zander Clark's in no danger of not going to Germany.

The question here is weighing Gordon's greater experience and ability compared to Kelly against his lack of game time, age, fitness against a much younger player who played every minute of his club season and has been a faithful stalwart of squads for several years and may be for several more (though if he sticks himself on Rangers bench for the next few seasons he's probably ending his own international career). Gordon's international career surely ends in the next 12 months regardless. I don't think that's an easy call though personally I'd take Gordon.

Clarke wasn't very good in either of those games though was he, he looked very shakey was caught out a number of times

[2426255]

15 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm not sure why these are being considered in the same vein, they're not the same.

* caveat - It may be Nagelsmann is the same of course and then decided he may as well take a 4th keeper in the 26th slot. That would make some sense I suppose but given he named a larger squad and said he'd drop an outfield player it doesn't really.

Yes, that's the reason why I suggested them in the same vein. If you are only taking 25 players then it's not that different to taking a 4th goalkeeper.

[2426255]

16 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

I was only jesting but the difference being is that these countries have a ridiculous amount of quality players and have the depth to do bring an additional goalie for shooting practice.

I'd have thought with more quality in depth it would be more reason to fill out your squad. Why not take Serge Gnabry or one of the other outfielders than missed out. Similar for France and Belgium. What's the logic? Everyone says it suits the bigger nations to expand the squads to 26, don't they? so there must be a damn good reason to not take full advantage.

Yes it's not the norm, so people will be up in arms against the idea and maybe it will be something we look back on and think that was stupid or maybe it will be something that becomes more of a trend.

Edited May 29 by 2426255

[Londonwell]

8 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I'd have thought with more quality in depth it would be more reason to fill out your squad. Why not take Serge Gnabry or one of the other outfielders than missed out. Similar for France and Belgium. What's the logic? 

I know it doesn’t detract from your overall point but the pedant in me dictates that I point out that Gnabry is missing out through injury and not as a result of Nagelsmann’s squad management. 

[nessies long lost ghost]

I think Souttar and Kelly miss out if everyone is fit.

Gordon is a far superior keeper than Kelly - and has never once let Scotland down - he is going.

Cooper has the advantage that he is older, much more experienced, and he is left footed.

[Skyline Drifter]

39 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Yes, that's the reason why I suggested them in the same vein. If you are only taking 25 players then it's not that different to taking a 4th goalkeeper.

But in Nagelsmann's case he's named a squad of 27 including four goalkeepers and said he'll be dropping an outfield player prior to the tournament. So that IS different. He's got an integrated 27 already. He's actively choosing to prefer a 4th keeper over an outfield player. That remains, to me, batshit crazy.

That is different to having only a desire to take 22 outfield players anyway as with France and Belgium and then debating whether to use the extra slot for a 4th keeper or not given it's otherwise empty.

Perhaps the French and Belgian FA's are feeling the pinch and fancy saving on a hotel room for the tournament!

[2426255]

15 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

But in Nagelsmann's case he's named a squad of 27 including four goalkeepers and said he'll be dropping an outfield player prior to the tournament.  He's got an integrated 27 already. He's actively choosing to prefer a 4th keeper over an outfield player.

That is different to having only a desire to take 22 outfield players anyway as with France and Belgium and then debating whether to use the extra slot for a 4th keeper or not given it's otherwise empty.

I'm struggling to see the difference (Genuinely not trying to be difficult ). I'm looking at it from the point of view that a choice is being made between taking a fourth goalkeeper, a spare outfielder or an empty space. Are you saying Germany always take four goalkeepers? is that what you mean by integrated? If so I was unaware of that.

Edited May 29 by 2426255