Who’s on the plane?

[Skyline Drifter]

9 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I'm struggling to see the difference (Genuinely not trying to be difficult ). I'm looking at it from the point of view that a choice is being made between taking a fourth goalkeeper, a spare outfielder or an empty space. Are you saying Germany always take four goalkeepers? is that what you mean by integrated? If so I was unaware of that.

No I meant, he's taking 27 players away as a group then telling one of them, who apparently isn't one of the keepers, to pack up and go home. I stand by the suggestion that's mental. Send a keeper home or take the 27 to the tournament including a training keeper who isn't officially in the squad. Both are more sensible than what he's doing.

I'm assuming if France and Belgium have said they are taking 25 players they've named 25 man squads? I genuinely haven't looked. Surely they haven't said we're only taking 25 players and then named more than that as an advance squad? That would be even more crazy. I kind of understand if they have a set 25 already and don't want to add to the group (an Elliot Anderson type situation for instance where it creates an issue in the group).

[2426255]

40 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

No I meant, he's taking 27 players away as a group then telling one of them, who apparently isn't one of the keepers, to pack up and go home. I stand by the suggestion that's mental. Send a keeper home or take the 27 to the tournament including a training keeper who isn't officially in the squad. Both are more sensible than what he's doing.

I'm assuming if France and Belgium have said they are taking 25 players they've named 25 man squads? I genuinely haven't looked. Surely they haven't said we're only taking 25 players and then named more than that as an advance squad? That would be even more crazy. I kind of understand if they have a set 25 already and don't want to add to the group (an Elliot Anderson type situation for instance where it creates an issue in the group).

Nagelsmann stated the +1 was to cover injuries and to provide enough players in the squad to cover their friendlies due to players  being involved in club matches close to the tournament. 

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It’s easy to explain why we have one more player. There are players who will join us late (due to the CL final). We need to have a good training squad with the right number to be able to train well and it’s also a little preparation in case someone gets injured. We also have two test matches that we want to play with a good squad and I don’t want to go in with just 18 players.

Nagelsmann

 https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2024/julian-nagelsmann-explains-his-decision-on-taking-four-goalkeepers-to-euro-2024/#google_vignette

The overall point I'm trying to make is that while they're not exactly the same, they are the same in effect. Taking a fourth goalkeeper who isn't going to play has the same or similar effect.

I understand fans think it's off the wall and there is resistance to the concept. That's why I'm highlighting that this is an approach being taken (or considered) by top level managers, for reasons explained by both Clarke and Nagelsmann, while similar decision making has been employed by France and Belgium - where the view has been reached that taking 23 outfielders isn't the optimal solution.

This discussion wouldn't be happening if the squads were still at 23, so that's an obvious cause. I still don't have a scooby where Nick McPheat has got this from - I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that we're taking 3 keepers although I know Clarke has done some interviews that haven't been fully released.

Edited May 29 by 2426255

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

I'd have thought with more quality in depth it would be more reason to fill out your squad. Why not take Serge Gnabry or one of the other outfielders than missed out. Similar for France and Belgium. What's the logic? Everyone says it suits the bigger nations to expand the squads to 26, don't they? so there must be a damn good reason to not take full advantage.

Yes it's not the norm, so people will be up in arms against the idea and maybe it will be something we look back on and think that was stupid or maybe it will be something that becomes more of a trend.

With the bigger teams, there is probably a lot more scrutiny on the manager to pick certain players, alot of big name players sitting on the bench not playing, big personalities to deal with that may end up disrupting the morale of the team etc. 

It's a bit different with us as I think we will utilising the majority of the team in one way or the other and players are just grateful of being at a major tournament perhaps? 

[Jives Miguel]

Think the squad met up for the first time today 

 

 

[craigkillie]

Is it just McKenna who still has games to play this season now?

[Old Bing]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Nagelsmann stated the +1 was to cover injuries and to provide enough players in the squad to cover their friendlies due to players  being involved in club matches close to the tournament. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2024/julian-nagelsmann-explains-his-decision-on-taking-four-goalkeepers-to-euro-2024/#google_vignette

The overall point I'm trying to make is that while they're not exactly the same, they are the same in effect. Taking a fourth goalkeeper who isn't going to play has the same or similar effect.

I understand fans think it's off the wall and there is resistance to the concept. That's why I'm highlighting that this is an approach being taken (or considered) by top level managers, for reasons explained by both Clarke and Nagelsmann, while similar decision making has been employed by France and Belgium - where the view has been reached that taking 23 outfielders isn't the optimal solution.

This discussion wouldn't be happening if the squads were still at 23, so that's an obvious cause. I still don't have a scooby where Nick McPheat has got this from - I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that we're taking 3 keepers although I know Clarke has done some interviews that haven't been fully released.

Numbers, Clarke could name 12 keepers in the squad and you would defend it.

Edited May 29 by Bing.McCrosby

[2426255]

18 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Numbers, Clarke could name 12 keepers in the squad and you would defend it.

I don't agree. I'm not defending Clarke. I'm pointing to the fact that he isn't on an island alone in considering the idea. The other thing that I take from this is that fans don't factor in what they can't see. For fans the idea that less is more (that you don't take 26 players or take four Goalkeepers) isn't valid because the reasoning isn't something they see, so a benefit to the wider group in training or in terms of the group dynamics isn't accepted.

Managers and Fans are worlds apart in that sense in my view. The majority of fans would prefer to reduce the number of goalkeepers in squads to just two.  

Edited May 29 by 2426255

[Old Bing]

7 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I don't agree. I'm not defending Clarke. I'm pointing to the fact that he isn't on an island alone in considering the idea. The other thing that I take from this is that fans don't factor in what they can't see. For fans the idea that less is more (that you don't take 26 players or take four Goalkeepers) isn't valid because the reasoning isn't something they see, so a benefit to the wider group in training or in terms of the group dynamics isn't accepted.

Managers and Fans are worlds apart in that sense in my view. The majority fans would prefer to reduce the number of goalkeepers in squads to just two.

Im sure if you did a poll that is not how it would play out at all.

[aberdeen1970]

The one thing that's clear is that 26 players is too many. 

I thought the Belgium coach put it well, he feels that it's important for squad morale that every player feels he has a chance of being involved. 

Edited May 29 by aberdeen1970

[2426255]

4 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

The one thing that's clear is that 26 players is too many. 

I agree with this.

Fans like it because it provides more chance for them to see see their favourite players in the squad, we know that. However, the reality is that we won't use 26 players. Ben Doak was selected when the squad went up to 26. It's probable that four goalkeepers wouldn't be taken in a 23-man squad and then you still have seven centre-backs - so even Scotland are filling out positions.

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I’ve never had the chance to work closely with Ben, so it just seemed like the right opportunity to put him in. The squad going from 23 to 26 just made it something that I thought I should do so we’ll have a look at Ben and see how he does.

Steve Clarke

 

It's clearly not necessary, I'd be interested to know which countries voted in favour of it given France and Belgium have taken only 25 players. Steve Clarke isn't in favour of it, that's also understood. 

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Is it just McKenna who still has games to play this season now?

McKenna still has games? I thought he finished on Sunday? My understanding was that Hendry on Monday was the last one playing.

3 hours ago, 2426255 said:

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It's clearly not necessary, I'd be interested to know which countries voted in favour of it given France and Belgium have taken only 25 players. Steve Clarke isn't in favour of it, that's also understood. 

Source for Stevie Clarke not being in favour? Him saying that he's taking Doak because the opportunity is there to do so doesn't necessarily mean he's not happy about that.

[2426255]

48 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Source for Stevie Clarke not being in favour? Him saying that he's taking Doak because the opportunity is there to do so doesn't necessarily mean he's not happy about that.

Sure:

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Surprisingly, was probably more difficult than if it had just been a straight 23 and you would just have to deal with it and get on with it.

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Going from 23 to 26 probably made it more difficult to be honest because then you’re thinking how to balance the squad, how to get the right personnel – the right people. And the squad is not always just about who plays. It’s also about who doesn’t play and the ones who don’t play or don’t get many minutes are just as big a part of the squad moving forward as the ones that do play because they control the harmony of the group.

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It makes it more difficult. Going from 23 to 26 gives you more imponderables. It gives you more in your head – I think I said to my wife my heads like a tumble dryer.

[craigkillie]

53 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

McKenna still has games? I thought he finished on Sunday? My understanding was that Hendry on Monday was the last one playing.

Copenhagen finished 3rd and as a result have a play-off on Friday for the final Conference League spot.

[Skyline Drifter]

37 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Sure:

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I'm being pedantic here I know but all of those are evidence that he found it more difficult to add three than he would have done to just name 23. None of it suggests he didn't actually want it or didn't vote for it. He's a manager with a track record for using extra picks to bring along kids as he did last time out (partly because McLean and Jack missed it to be fair). Maybe he was keen to do so again (hence Doak and to an extent McCrorie) but still found it difficult to pick an extra three?

I suspect you're right that he wasn't in favour but I don't think he's ever outright said so.

35 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Copenhagen finished 3rd and as a result have a play-off on Friday for the final Conference League spot.

Thanks, wasn't aware. I presume Friday is still within the time clubs aren't mandatorily required to release players to national squads then? Given we've met up as a squad it's not ideal he's going to be 4 days behind the others. When do they travel to Portugal? Chance they are actually away before he joins up?

[2426255]

26 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm being pedantic here I know but all of those are evidence that he found it more difficult to add three than he would have done to just name 23. None of it suggests he didn't actually want it or didn't vote for it. He's a manager with a track record for using extra picks to bring along kids as he did last time out (partly because McLean and Jack missed it to be fair). Maybe he was keen to do so again (hence Doak and to an extent McCrorie) but still found it difficult to pick an extra three?

I suspect you're right that he wasn't in favour but I don't think he's ever outright said so.

Interpret it as you see fit. I'm just relaying the information and how I've come to my opinion.

If we zoom back out the overall point is simply that a 26-man squad leaves room for picking a fourth goalkeeper. The Manager's can make a luxury choice rather than just take a straight 23 and just have to deal with it and get on with it. I'll leave it there as we've probably done this discussion long enough for today, you can have the last word.

[craigkillie]

50 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Thanks, wasn't aware. I presume Friday is still within the time clubs aren't mandatorily required to release players to national squads then? Given we've met up as a squad it's not ideal he's going to be 4 days behind the others. When do they travel to Portugal? Chance they are actually away before he joins up?

I think the official release date might even be Monday - there's a Serie A game on Sunday, for example.

[Skyline Drifter]

12 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I think the official release date might even be Monday - there's a Serie A game on Sunday, for example.

Didn't realise that. I was under the (clearly mistaken) impression that May 31 was generally accepted as the date all club games have to be played by in principle, particularly in seasons ahead of a summer international tournament.

Like I say, not ideal. Whilst I appreciate Gibraltar likely isn't the place to test our defenders anyway, McKenna presumably not likely to feature in Gibraltar having not joined up with the group till Saturday, potentially after the rest have already gone to the Algarve.

You'd assume people like Dykes, Porteous, Hanley, Cooper, possibly Jack and Doak depending on how fit they are, McCrorie / Ralston who have gone longest without actually playing are most likely to feature v Gibraltar.

[Gordopolis]

27 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Like I say, not ideal. Whilst I appreciate Gibraltar likely isn't the place to test our defenders anyway, 

The just reminded me how Strachan played 1 central defenders Vs Gibraltar at Hampden

Edited May 29 by Gordopolis

[MarkoRaj]

The f**k is going on with Dykes' hair? He looks like Ron Swanson in jail

 

[Willie adie]

On 23/05/2024 at 14:32, Pocketman said:

was always of the view that this Scotland strip would have been up there as one of the very best if it were not for the white trim around collar and sleeves, as well as the larger white pocket on the button up collar. 

I've a reproduction  of this one