Motherwell vs. Dundee Saturday December 2nd

[18May1991]

To echo what others have said, Lyall Cameron is a cracking wee player. Composed on the ball, finds his pass every time. If only we had someone like that in midfield…..

Dundee should have won today. We scored early, looked decent, then reverted to shite. So depressing to watch when the team is clearly capable of much better. 
 

On a brighter note, that was my 5 year olds 4th ever game. All this season. He’s yet to see Motherwell lose and, I think, Wilkinson has scored in every game he’s been at. He wanted to stay to the very end despite me trying to nip off a few minutes early. He was confident we would score

 

He’s hooked, he loves it. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by 18May1991

[Gianfranco]

Just watched the highlights. Holy moly the lack of marking for all 3 goals we concede. That’s County, Dundee and Aberdeen all all scored multi goals a Fir Park in recent times so something has to change defensively. We canna be giving opposition players so much space. I think Kelly has to do better for the first goal too.

Mika and Wilkonson’s finishes are smashing. 

[dinnae-punt-it]

I’m amazed that this wasn’t picked up by VAR or the BBC pundits, but it looks like Oli Shaw is a mile offside from the goal kick. 

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, dinnae-punt-it said:

I’m amazed that this wasn’t picked up by VAR or the BBC pundits, but it looks like Oli Shaw is a mile offside from the goal kick. 

Not sure if trolling, as he can’t be offside at a goal kick

[dinnae-punt-it]

10 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Not sure if trolling, as he can’t be offside at a goal kick

Not trolling, I just didn’t know that, which is a tad embarrassing. I knew about throw ins but not goal kicks. I guess the risk is someone else on your side gets first contact, but worth a gamble occasionally. Seems like a strange rule as if your goalie was a good kicker, you can force the defensive line right down field. 

[ropy]

2 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Agree with the comments...in live time there was so little from Mugabi it wasn't a foul but surprised it passed trial by slow motion. Same for Paton, yellow fine but a VAR red all day long unless you're Celtic last week. I actually think had it not been directly after the sending off Dundee would have had a penalty for the tussle... not that it should have been but 'these days' etc.

Find it disconcerting that after 30 years of being a clown show Dundee are actually building a solid side. I felt from early in they wouldn't go down but will upgrade them to pushing for the top six (albeit missing out this time) now.

At the tussle in the box the ref had given a free kick to Motherwell if VAR had overturned it again it would just have been a different opinion.  At best it would be undermining the ref.  Maybe Nick Walsh is a p***k?

[Dosser1886]

1 hour ago, Gianfranco said:

 I think Kelly has to do better for the first goal too.

I'm done with Kelly. When you have a defence struggling you need a keeper to command his box and give them a hand. Not shite it, sit back and pretend that you are a great shot stopper. Which you ain't.

Like the rest of the team decent at parkhead but resorted to the usual  yesterday.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Dosser1886

[2426255]

40 minutes ago, dinnae-punt-it said:

I’m amazed that this wasn’t picked up by VAR or the BBC pundits, but it looks like Oli Shaw is a mile offside from the goal kick. 

It's funny the way you said that as if maybe another angle would show that he was in line with the Dundee defenders.   

[dinnae-punt-it]

For me, Kettlewell’s biggest mistake/issue is playing a heavily tight footed right back at left back. He needs to start playing Gent and working on his defensive issues. Playing 5 at the back relies on the wing backs for width, but we have none on the left playing Spencer there. Spencer should be first choice right back and Gent should play left back until January at least, when we can either bring back the young lad from Stirling Albion or sign another left back. Yesterday we essentially played a flat back five for most of the first half and gave Dundee the freedom of Lanarkshire to build attacks. Hardly a single move went down the left as Spencer needs to keep coming inside into traffic. We got the break for the first goal, but it was a break. 

[Al B]

17 hours ago, Al B said:

Looking forward to the "Fighting right to the end"....."Never give up" approach from the media team being completely unable to read the room as per.

Apologies for quoting myself, but ask and ye shall receive.

Yesterdays "No nonsense at the back" caption, when nonsense is literally ALL we have at the back, might be up there with the best yet.

[Casagolda]

1 hour ago, dinnae-punt-it said:

For me, Kettlewell’s biggest mistake/issue is playing a heavily tight footed right back at left back. He needs to start playing Gent and working on his defensive issues. Playing 5 at the back relies on the wing backs for width, but we have none on the left playing Spencer there. Spencer should be first choice right back and Gent should play left back until January at least, when we can either bring back the young lad from Stirling Albion or sign another left back. Yesterday we essentially played a flat back five for most of the first half and gave Dundee the freedom of Lanarkshire to build attacks. Hardly a single move went down the left as Spencer needs to keep coming inside into traffic. We got the break for the first goal, but it was a break. 

I’ve been banging this drum for months but unfortunately he only seems to trust Gent marginally more than he trusts Davor.

Even after he came off the bench in Perth midweek where he set up the equaliser, Kettlewell still tried Blair Spittal at lwb first half on the Saturday against Hearts and then Spencer(again) 2nd half. He only seems to see him as a last resort with 15-20 mins to go when we’re inevitably chasing the game. 

We’ve kept 1 clean sheet in 16 games this season and have now shipped 12 goals in our last 4 matches at Fir Park. I know I’ve said it before but honestly, how much worse can the boy actually be defensively!? 

We generally look more of a threat when he’s on the park and he played his part in the equaliser again yesterday as well. I mean we haven’t won or kept a clean sheet in 3 months anyway, for the love of f**k Kettlewell just give the boy a chance for a couple of games. I actually think some pace and natural width could make a massive difference for this team. 

We still shows flashes of being a good side and even in amongst a lot of shite yesterday, put some decent moves together. However to me we look like a side lacking in confidence, being hamstrung by those in charge and their bizarre fascination with square pegs in round holes. 

While he certainly done well at the end for the equaliser, bringing on Shaw instead of Davor at 2-2 and finishing the game with only 1 actual midfielder while we were down to 10 men was an absolutely wild decision. 

[ropy]

Watching Paron’s challenge, he swings at the ball and it is as his foot is dropping that he makes contact with the leg.  I wouldn’t had had an issue if the ref had given a red although I would have thought it was a tad harsh.  The issue is that the still image makes it look like a straight leg challenge, that is not what happened.  VAR didn’t need to get involved, but I’m repeating myself. 

[Ceiling Granny]

That’s my view. If the ref had given a red straight away then fine, you see them given. For it to be upgraded from yellow to red by VAR though is crazy as the yellow wasn’t a clear error. 

[ropy]

As an opposition fan it was great to see the defender punching the ground when our third went in, I don’t know if it was frustration at a late equaliser or at his own contribution to the defending but he is going to have a sore fist after 3 or 4 jabs at the turf.  I haven’t caught it in any of the clips posted but it was funny at the time.

[Jacky1990]

Just seen the Paton red card.

Yellow card all day long that. Its two players both going for the ball. He's a fraction behind and catches the player obviously, but any sort of common sense says we shouldnt be sending players off for that.

Genuinely think some VAR officials think their job as to get involved in at least one incident a game lile theyre on commission. 

[18May1991]

1 hour ago, Jacky1990 said:

Just seen the Paton red card.

Yellow card all day long that. Its two players both going for the ball. He's a fraction behind and catches the player obviously, but any sort of common sense says we shouldnt be sending players off for that.

Genuinely think some VAR officials think their job as to get involved in at least one incident a game lile theyre on commission. 

It felt that way. The (rookie) ref had a good game I think. VAR sucked the joy out of two of our goals and could have cost us the game with the red card. It is fucking appalling. And is being operated by half-wits. 

[ropy]

2 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

Just seen the Paton red card.

Yellow card all day long that. Its two players both going for the ball. He's a fraction behind and catches the player obviously, but any sort of common sense says we shouldnt be sending players off for that.

Genuinely think some VAR officials think their job as to get involved in at least one incident a game lile theyre on commission. 

I don’t want to go on about it, it didn’t turn the game, we weren’t going to win it, but I’m going to go on about it.  It was a standing swing of a foot, there was no forward movement, no force, no malice.  I’ve said before, if the ref gives a red then fair enough, but he didn’t.  No re-refereeing required.

Whataboutery tells us that other players lunge into a challenge and land a yard beyond their opponent taking everything with them, that is a red, not always though.

[hk blues]

On 03/12/2023 at 02:32, Sortmeout said:

Why would your game be any less challenging than their game?

 

I can think of almost 60,000 reasons, give or take. 

[well fan for life]

12 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

Just seen the Paton red card.

Yellow card all day long that. Its two players both going for the ball. He's a fraction behind and catches the player obviously, but any sort of common sense says we shouldnt be sending players off for that.

Genuinely think some VAR officials think their job as to get involved in at least one incident a game lile theyre on commission. 

When you see it in real time it's a coming together that's going to happen in a game of football. The fact the referee goes to the monitor and the first thing they get met with is the 4 frames of the player's leg straight at that height is a complete nonsense.

I'm very sick of VAR. It doesn't half suck the joy out of football. 

[Dosser1886]

16 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I'm very sick of VAR. It doesn't half suck the joy out of football. 

Knew it was coming with the experience of fans down south. The revist to the red is bad enough but the inability to celebrate a goal without pausing to wait is the real killer for me.

Talking about expanding it even further for corners etc. I'm a big rugby fan and TMO/VAR reviews are killing both sports to an increasing extent. Need to look at and pull it back for me.