Savage Henry Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 30/11/2023 at 15:57, Skyline Drifter said: How many of that team from 12 years ago would get in the current side if everyone was fit and at their best? Two, maybe. Allan McGregor at his best was a better keeper than Angus Gunn is (although Craig Gordon pre-leg break was better than McGregor). Darren Fletcher was a top class player. He probably gets in our current midfield ahead of one of McGregor / Gilmour / McTominay. I'm not actually sure anyone else in that side above even gets in our current squad. James Morrison is comparable to Armstrong and Christie, he's not obviously better. Naismith maybe ahead of Shankland / Brown. None of the rest. Not sure I agree with all of that. James Morrison was absolutely class. There’s a place for him in central midfield I reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 8 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Not sure I agree with all of that. James Morrison was absolutely class. There’s a place for him in central midfield I reckon. I don't think we're really disagreeing much here. He was good which is why I highlighted him as one of the few in that squad who'd be a candidate now at his best. James Morrison was a decent level Premiership midfielder. He spent the vast majority of his senior career at West Brom after initially coming through at Middlesbrough. He was a regular for a bottom half premiership side for a decade or so. A more than decent player who did well for us but he was with us in the first place because he couldn't get a look in for England. I think "absolutely class" is a stretch. I think my suggestion he was of a comparable standard to the likes of Christie and Armstrong (or at the time, James McArthur) is not unreasonable. He's not starting in a midfield for me that has McTominay, McGregor, Gilmour and McGinn in it usually. I appreciate McGregor's not been tested in the English Premiership but the other three are likely in the England squad for me right now if they're English (McTominay and McGinn definitely would be). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) Morrison at his peak, now, would absolutely be in squads and have caps. It's a fair shout to say there should be a way to get him in the side, but I don't think he's obviously better than the players SD mentions above, McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour, McGregor. Christie plays a different role for Scotland than Morrison did. Edit: Ferguson would also, arguably, be ahead of Morrison in the pecking order. Edited December 15, 2023 by Gordon EF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said: I don't think we're really disagreeing much here. He was good which is why I highlighted him as one of the few in that squad who'd be a candidate now at his best. James Morrison was a decent level Premiership midfielder. He spent the vast majority of his senior career at West Brom after initially coming through at Middlesbrough. He was a regular for a bottom half premiership side for a decade or so. A more than decent player who did well for us but he was with us in the first place because he couldn't get a look in for England. I think "absolutely class" is a stretch. I think my suggestion he was of a comparable standard to the likes of Christie and Armstrong (or at the time, James McArthur) is not unreasonable. He's not starting in a midfield for me that has McTominay, McGregor, Gilmour and McGinn in it usually. I appreciate McGregor's not been tested in the English Premiership but the other three are likely in the England squad for me right now if they're English (McTominay and McGinn definitely would be). I wonder how he would get on and where he would find himself??? I don't think Rodgers seriously wanted him at Leicester or he'd have taken him. £12m would have got him and McGregor would have trebled his wages so the deal would have happened but Leicester had Teilemans, Maddison and Ndidi so they didn't really need him. I think this season he seems to have stalled a bit (while still being a good player) maybe the opportunity has passed him now and in hindsight a move in the summer might have suited all parties. I think now instead of possibly finding himself at a European challenging side like Leicester where he would find himself at a bottom half Notts Forest or Palace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, ahemps said: I don't think Rodgers seriously wanted him at Leicester or he'd have taken him. £12m would have got him and McGregor would have trebled his wages so the deal would have happened but Leicester had Teilemans, Maddison and Ndidi so they didn't really need him. Callum McGregor at least accepted staying at Celtic in a professional manner. Celtic at least rejected an enquiry from Leicester. He is happy at Celtic. It's not a quality issue. This is well documented. Quote Did I try to get Callum to Leicester? Yes. I was keen to get him. When I left, you had him and Kieran here. And certainly, when whichever one of them left, the other one was probably never going to get away. Brendan Rodgers https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/brendan-rodgers-reveals-celtic-transfer-30313897 Edited December 16, 2023 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Is Callum McGregor just this generations Paul McStay? I think its a waste he never tried another country tbh, but you can't argue with someone who'll end with the career hes had (so far). FWIW John McGovern has confirmed the story MacLeod didn't know he was Scottish. Quote Even as he was inducted into Scottish Football’s Hall of Fame this week, John McGovern STILL finds it hard to stomach. Especially as Ally MacLeod said he wasn’t picked for the Argentina ’78 World Cup because the boss didn’t know McGovern was Scottish! McGovern, 67, said: “I played a couple of times for Scotland’s Under-23s when Tommy Docherty was the manager. “But when I was at Forest, Ally MacLeod took over. "After we beat Manchester United 4-0 at Old Trafford he said all the Scottish players at Forest would be in his squad for Argentina. “Then the squad was named and I wasn’t there. "Somebody asked him about that and he said he didn’t know I was Scottish! “A photographer down in Nottingham had hired kilts and got John Robertson, Archie Gemmill, Kenny Burns and I in them along with Brian Clough. I'm too young, but I see talk that he missed out on the 78 World Cup due to this, then Souness broke through and was simply preferred. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 13 hours ago, 2426255 said: Callum McGregor at least accepted staying at Celtic in a professional manner. Celtic at least rejected an enquiry from Leicester. He is happy at Celtic. It's not a quality issue. This is well documented. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/brendan-rodgers-reveals-celtic-transfer-30313897 Rodgers spent £20m on Praet, £20m on Soumare and £45m on Tielemans. He also had Ndidi and Maddison. Do you think McGregor gets in a 3 man midfield with those 5? McGregor would have cost him around £12m so great value in comparison. He also trebles his wages so McGregor would have been interested too. This deal would have suited Leicester, Celtic and McGregor yet didn't happen........maybe his comments on returning to Celtic are to be taken with a pinch of salt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, ahemps said: Rodgers spent £20m on Praet, £20m on Soumare and £45m on Tielemans. He also had Ndidi and Maddison. Do you think McGregor gets in a 3 man midfield with those 5? Yes, probably. He's not playing the same role as Maddison. I'd have him ahead of Praet, Soumare and Tilemans probably. Maybe not Ndidi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ahemps said: This deal would have suited Leicester, Celtic and McGregor yet didn't happen The deal didn't suit Celtic, a point made by Rodgers. Celtic sold Kieran Tierney in Aug-2019. Celtic had no need or desire to sell McGregor and had an interest in keeping him. I don't think McGregor holds the personality to force a move, but there is an unanswerable question around his interest in leaving Celtic. McGregor is and has been a mainstay of Scotland's midfield. His competition are good English Premier League midfielders, so I find it acceptable at face value when Rodgers says Leicester were keen to sign him. The additional context supports the view that Celtic were the source of the block. At the end of the day it's not something either of us can prove beyond any doubt. if you don't agree, no problem and it's fine to say we don't properly have the Leicester side of the story because we don't. Quote Callum had the opportunity (to play in England) when Brendan went to Leicester and when he stayed at Celtic - at that time, he's going nowhere. Scott Brown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY4b28_7n60 Edited December 16, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Social media mentioning Cairney's good form wrt Euros ! Edited January 4 by Ewanandmoreagain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 It seems strange that he’s been ignored for so long if that’s the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 It's predominantly down to him not being good enough. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevilc Bairn Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Y 3 minutes ago, craigkillie said: It's predominantly down to him not being good enough. You've also got Lewis Ferguson playing well in Serie A and not getting a regular start with Scotland. Carney well down the pecking order. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 BBC: Tom Cairney, the 32-year-old midfielder who has signed a new contract with Premier League club Fulham, has not given up hope a recall to the Scotland squad ahead of the Euro 2024 finals. (TalkSport) It always felt as if there was a lack of interest from TC's side as well (as him being semi-fringe status), so it's interesting to hear that he's making noises about wanting a call-up. Could just be because there'a the carrot of a finals appearance, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Cairney hasn't been called up for years? So why would he now? I still don't really see it. I don't have a massive issue with players signing up as we're at the Euro's, but I'd expect them to be committed to future qualifying campaigns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/tom-cairney-reveals-scotland-euro-2024-wish-as-forgotten-fulham-star-sends-message-to-steve-clarke-4465051 I’ve been watching and Steve Clarke has done an unbelievable job. The team are playing their best football in years. Qualifying for the Euros is a big achievement and I’ve been a bit of a fan watching their games. Haud me back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB_Bino Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 21 minutes ago, eez-eh said: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/tom-cairney-reveals-scotland-euro-2024-wish-as-forgotten-fulham-star-sends-message-to-steve-clarke-4465051 I’ve been watching and Steve Clarke has done an unbelievable job. The team are playing their best football in years. Qualifying for the Euros is a big achievement and I’ve been a bit of a fan watching their games. Haud me back. A Freudian slip of a man who has always wanted to play for Scotland but never been selected, or an intentional one from someone, who doesn't feel he belongs because he sees himself as being English.....but it doing what he can to be involved because he qualifies??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Tom Cairney will not get another Scotland cap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Taranbino Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Based on ability alone, he isn't good enough to make the current full strength squad. But neither do I think he is as far off as some seem to think. 2 or 3 midfield absentees and he would be there on current form/merit. The big question is the attitude and how he has conducted himself previously when in the squads. If its not been great then he could see himself easily moved from 3rd reserve to 5th or 6th reserve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 04/01/2024 at 15:25, BB_Bino said: A Freudian slip of a man who has always wanted to play for Scotland but never been selected, or an intentional one from someone, who doesn't feel he belongs because he sees himself as being English.....but it doing what he can to be involved because he qualifies??? I took it to mean something different - bit of a fan, as he’s used to being a player kind of thing. There hasn’t ever been anything to suggest the guy hasn’t been committed, he just hasn’t been selected and there hasn’t really been an argument to call him up until recently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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