Celtic V Rangers - Sat 30th December

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

It happens,  Spain v Scotland a very recent example. Frustrating but not worth dwelling on especially not by the club themselves. It  just comes across as paranoia.

I think that adds more weight as to why it should be looked at.

The example you’ve given is a good one because almost everyone on here were calling it a shambles and the SFA wrote to UEFA requesting an explanation. I’m sure most had no issue with that, so this seems to be the same situation.

Again, the decision not to award the penalty I’m not too concerned with. However I think it would be reasonable to question if the offside decision has been retrospectively applied, just as the SFA did.

They would only have checked for offside if they review the footage of the handball and deem it to be a foul. They would then go back and check for any fouls in the build up (the offside) that would supersede the handball.

The review took all of, what, a minute? I’m not sure that would be enough time to review the different angles of the handball, then go back through the build up and draw the offside lines, which is probably why that image was only offered up 30 minutes after the event.

[bennett]

9 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

But it was the right decision not to award the penalty. Surely everyone agrees with that?

 

We still don't know what happened,  if the decision was offside then it would have been a free kick to celtic and not a by kick. Crocker saying that they were listening to the VAR chat and offside wasn't mentioned only muddies the waters even further.

The SFA could clear it up by releasing the audio.

 

[Dons_1988]

This has shades of Neil Lennon “they lied to me” campaign over an ultimately correct decision. 

If the process wasn’t perfect or a mistake was made it’s not really a matter for rangers. 

[Greenlantern]

13 hours ago, bennett said:

6 points for celtic in two old firm games this season from refereeing errors, intimidation works.

Happy Hogmanay Benito

[DA Baracus]

Sevco are world champion cowards.

[houston_bud]

23 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

We still don't know what happened,  if the decision was offside then it would have been a free kick to celtic and not a by kick. Crocker saying that they were listening to the VAR chat and offside wasn't mentioned only muddies the waters even further.

The SFA could clear it up by releasing the audio.

 

Would it? Or because it the VAR decision was not to give a penalty do they stick with the onfield decision?

That's a genuine question, I don't know the answer.

Ultimately, not to award the penalty was the right call. Rangers jumping up and down, demanding the audio doesn't change that. If there were problems, that's for the SFA to deal with, not Rangers. 

[kingjoey]

10 hours ago, AJF said:

Ignore the blurb in the tweet about Walsh as it’s a load of waffle, but this clip clearly shows Johnstone throwing out his elbow, catching Sima and ending his game. It’s reckless and a yellow card every day of the week.

 

Nonsense. Just like every foul isn't a yellow, every time there is an arm into a face it isn't always a yellow, like this one. All of these petty incidents would be glossed over in any game not involving the gruesome twosome. 

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Would it? Or because it the VAR decision was not to give a penalty do they stick with the onfield decision?

That's a genuine question, I don't know the answer.

Ultimately, not to award the penalty was the right call. Rangers jumping up and down, demanding the audio doesn't change that. If there were problems, that's for the SFA to deal with, not Rangers. 

It wouldn’t. The decision was goal kick, VAR can’t step into award an offside. The offside just cancels out the penalty claim 

[AJF]

13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This has shades of Neil Lennon “they lied to me” campaign over an ultimately correct decision. 

If the process wasn’t perfect or a mistake was made it’s not really a matter for rangers. 

It was ultimately the correct decision, yes. But as the SFA did with the Spain incident, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the decision and ask if the offside was applied retrospectively for some reason. It’s the exact same scenario.

Edited December 31, 2023 by AJF

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

It was ultimately the correct decision, yes. But as the SFA did with the Spain incident, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the decision. It’s the exact same scenario.

To what end? 

[craigkillie]

34 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

We still don't know what happened,  if the decision was offside then it would have been a free kick to celtic and not a by kick. Crocker saying that they were listening to the VAR chat and offside wasn't mentioned only muddies the waters even further.

The SFA could clear it up by releasing the audio.

 

 

I don't think the commentators can here the entire VAR chat, they can only hear a few pieces of communication - for example they'll hear the "checking possible penalty" and "check complete".

As has been pointed out already, the VAR wouldn't step in to change the goal-kick to a free-kick, they only intervene if the referee has made a clear and obvious error in not giving a penalty, and since the penalty couldn't be given they don't intervene at all.

[kingjoey]

Just now, AJF said:

It was ultimately the correct decision, yes. But as the SFA did with the Spain incident, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the decision. It’s the exact same scenario.

Pretty sure the SFA backed down over the Spain decision. 

[DA Baracus]

The SFA were wrong to cry about VAR and Sevco are wrong to cry about VAR. Not sure who, apart from their thick, scumbag fanbase, they (Sevco) think they're fooling by claiming they want 'clarity'; we all know exactly what they're trying to do. Celtic have tried it multiple times themselves.

[AJF]

Just now, throbber said:

Thought it was a good game and Rangers unlucky not to get at least a point. Dessers and Cantwell were disgraceful up front. I think it was the occasion getting the better of Dessers, he looked like a frightened rabbit.

Despite small signs of an improvement, yesterday just shows how far off it Dessers reslly is. Clinical finishing the real difference yesterday.

[willywastecoat]

7 minutes ago, AJF said:

It was ultimately the correct decision, yes. But as the SFA did with the Spain incident, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the decision. It’s the exact same scenario.

Pish,in what way is it the exact same?

Edited December 31, 2023 by willywastecoat

[AJF]

4 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Pretty sure the SFA backed down over the Spain decision. 

Quite possibly, I’m just going from memory where I recall they were writing to UEFA about it.

Just now, willywastecoat said:

Pish,in what way is it the exact same?

Well in the Scotland v Spain match we scored from a free kick which was disallowed. The original decision indicated it was disallowed for a foul. It was then later advised it was actually disallowed for an offside some time after the check had been completed. It was the same yesterday, but just sub the decision from a disallowed goal to a disallowed penalty.

I’m not saying the decision not to award a penalty is wrong because ultimately if Sima was offside then it’s correct not to award it. I just don’t think it’s unreasonable to seek clarity as the SFA did.

[AJF]

10 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

To what end? 

Well I suppose that is subjective but ultimately you’re right in suggesting there will be nothing gained from the endeavour.

[willywastecoat]

Just now, Richey Edwards said:

 

The decision making process really is no clubs business.

The main issue with VAR in Scotland is that it takes too long to make the correct decision,in this case they didn't disrupt the flow of the game but they started the game again in the wrong place (by-kick or off-side).

[Guest]

I'm sure there will be consequences for this.

[craigkillie]

59 minutes ago, AJF said:

They would only have checked for offside if they review the footage of the handball and deem it to be a foul. They would then go back and check for any fouls in the build up (the offside) that would supersede the handball.

The review took all of, what, a minute? I’m not sure that would be enough time to review the different angles of the handball, then go back through the build up and draw the offside lines, which is probably why that image was only offered up 30 minutes after the event.

The actual VAR branded images of offside decisions regularly take ages to actually make it to the broadcast, even in cases where you literally watch them drawing the lines live. I suspect there's some software they have to be passed through to generate the final images with the red and blue lines and so on.

EDIT: In fact, the Spain v Scotland game is a perfect example of this (albeit from a different competition with different graphics etc). The on-field decision absolutely was given as an offside, there was footage of the referee restarting play with an indirect free-kick, but it took an age for the image showing Hendry was offside to surface in the broadcast, which was why there was so much speculation in between.

If there was a suspicion of an offside in the VAR room then they may well have done the offside check first, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do it in that order, since both checks would have to be done anyway before they could give a penalty.

Edited December 31, 2023 by craigkillie