Amateur to WoS progression

[Brad Bobley]

Thought it would be useful to share this circulation:

ATTENTION ALL CLUBS

Amateur clubs in the West of Scotland will soon have an opportunity to join the Scottish football pyramid after an agreement between the West of Scotland Football League (WoSFL) and the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA). The agreement means that when a vacancy arises for a club to join the West of Scotland Football League, perhaps due to the Premier Division champion club being promoted to the Lowland League, that the vacancy could be filled by an amateur club, from the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA), that satisfies all the necessary stadium and other criteria required to join the WoSFL. Any SAFA amateur club, based within the defined geographical boundary of the League, that wishes to apply for membership of the WoSFL will now be able to do so at any time via the wosfl.co.uk website. There, all the information will be available, including a copy of the stadium criteria clubs will be required to meet and the League constitution. Clubs will also be able to complete an online self-assessment form to start the process. A visit from a delegate of the WoSFL will highlight any aspect of the application that needs to be improved, including the stadium criteria and once the club has satisfied the requirements, they will be placed on an accredited list clubs eligible to join the League. When a vacancy arises, those clubs on the approved list will be invited to make a presentation to a panel made up of both the WoSFL and the SAFA to determine which club will fill the vacancy. The agreement also means that any youth club that wishes to become a member of the WoSFL must in the first instance, join their local SAFA League or Association. After they have been members of the Scottish Amateur FA for a season, they will then be eligible to apply to become an accredited club to join the WoSFL. SAFA President, Iain Cowden, said that this agreement was a positive step that allowed those progressive amateur clubs an opportunity to make the step into senior football, while allowing open dialogue with member clubs to assist them going forward. “This agreement is great news for all amateur clubs in the West of Scotland who may have ambitions of progressing into the pyramid system of Scottish Football whilst at the same time protecting the status of the Scottish Amateur FA in the West of Scotland, in that clubs out with our organisation who wish to join the pyramid system, must become a member of the Scottish Amateur FA before they can become eligible to apply to the West of Scotland League.” “This is an excellent opportunity for our clubs, and I believe that this is a blueprint that could be replicated elsewhere in Scotland for the benefit of our national game.” Matt Bamford, Chairman of the West of Scotland Football League agreed and stated that football is the winner from this agreement. “This agreement is a win/win for both the League and for amateur football. It allows clubs to achieve the minimum criteria for membership of the WoSFL so that they have everything in place when a vacancy arises.” “It also protects the amateur game and benefits not only progressive amateur clubs but also youth clubs with a defined pathway into senior football should they so desire.”

 

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Promising I think. A good incentive for ambitious amateur teams in the West to progress and not have a 'dead-end'. I know there is a similar-ish and informal set up in place already, but good to have it in writing, and a recognised pathway. A progressive step, IMO. I envisage that the EoS will follow suit.

[Basile Boli]

Interesting. Hopefully this is the first step in a (long-term) plan to get the amateur leagues to feed into the bottom levels of the non-league pyramid.

[scotscores]

On 05/03/2024 at 15:54, Basile Boli said:

Interesting. Hopefully this is the first step in a (long-term) plan to get the amateur leagues to feed into the bottom levels of the non-league pyramid.

One can only hope - it might come sooner than we think.  It's possible now to do it - teams could play at Level 11 or below as they are (amateur, with no upgrades necessary), with the highest finishing team that meets standards for Tier 10 going up, or a play-off for promotion.  Essentially, you can just stick the amateur teams on to the bottom of the existing pyramid - although playing standards at the top of the amateurs are probably higher than Tier 10 in the seniors (Tier 9 in the East).

[Brad Bobley]

The only difficult I can foresee with that is how the team to be promoted to the WoS would be nominated. Winner of all Premier Leagues in the geographical region play a semi and a final?

SPAFA

GGP

Caley

Ayrshire?

Runs into some problems if the winner of SPAFA or the Caley is one of the Stirlingshire region teams but solutions could be found.

[AMP28]

12 hours ago, Brad Bobley said:

The only difficult I can foresee with that is how the team to be promoted to the WoS would be nominated. Winner of all Premier Leagues in the geographical region play a semi and a final?

SPAFA

GGP

Caley

Ayrshire?

Runs into some problems if the winner of SPAFA or the Caley is one of the Stirlingshire region teams but solutions could be found.

19 hours ago, scotscores said:

One can only hope - it might come sooner than we think.  It's possible now to do it - teams could play at Level 11 or below as they are (amateur, with no upgrades necessary), with the highest finishing team that meets standards for Tier 10 going up, or a play-off for promotion.  Essentially, you can just stick the amateur teams on to the bottom of the existing pyramid - although playing standards at the top of the amateurs are probably higher than Tier 10 in the seniors (Tier 9 in the East).

Will never happen as the leagues cant work together, But a West amateur premier league would be some division, likely better than WOS 3rd/4th divisions maybe even 2nd! again maybe another bottle neck in the pyramid is not what we need.

Also a part from St Pats, have any other amateur teams said they had senior football ambitions? Teams like Steins Thistle already have a ground that could very quickly be a entry level WOS facility, but I am sure they prefer competing in amateur Scottish cup later rounds than scrapping it in the bottom of the WOS???

[Ginaro]

16 hours ago, Brad Bobley said:

The only difficult I can foresee with that is how the team to be promoted to the WoS would be nominated. Winner of all Premier Leagues in the geographical region play a semi and a final?

SPAFA

GGP

Caley

Ayrshire?

Runs into some problems if the winner of SPAFA or the Caley is one of the Stirlingshire region teams but solutions could be found.

After seeing the various comings and goings in that other threads - how many clubs do these three leagues (covering the same area) actually have now? What would it take for them to merge together - when one or two of them drop down to just a single division?

[Brad Bobley]

1 minute ago, Ginaro said:

After seeing the various comings and goings in that other threads - how many clubs do these three leagues (covering the same area) actually have now? What would it take for them to merge together - when one or two of them drop down to just a single division?

The Caley have 25 (I think) going into next season; SPAFA roughly 15; GGP have 30. In the region of 70 West Central afternoon teams. I don't think the leagues will ever merge. SPAFA and Caley certainly won't ever merge (though I'm happy to be wrong). I can see GGP merging with one or the other, though - likely SPAFA, given their current predicament against the Caley's strength going into 2024-2025.

 

3 hours ago, AMP28 said:

Will never happen as the leagues cant work together, But a West amateur premier league would be some division, likely better than WOS 3rd/4th divisions maybe even 2nd! again maybe another bottle neck in the pyramid is not what we need.

Also a part from St Pats, have any other amateur teams said they had senior football ambitions? Teams like Steins Thistle already have a ground that could very quickly be a entry level WOS facility, but I am sure they prefer competing in amateur Scottish cup later rounds than scrapping it in the bottom of the WOS???

You're probably right. I'd prefer to see the "separate league associations covering the same geographical area" idea notion binned and move towards something similar to the WoS. I think Ayrshire would need to be involved in the full thing, even though there will be some travelling constraints, or else it'll end up like the old Juniors setup with Ayrshire in one bowl and everybody else in another.

I don't know if any other teams have aspirations or the appropriate facilities. Steins, though, would fall into the EoS bracket, I imagine. I'd imagine EKYM will be heading along the WoS route given their new astro development, clubhouse and overall standard of facility, but that's probably a season or two away. Looking at other clubs with good facilities and decent playing standards, I don't think the Drum would entertain WoS; Annbank have decent enough facilities. There are more than enough teams who are good enough in a technical playing sense, with a good structure behind them, but the main stumbling block will be the facilities. Though, having said that, some WoS teams are playing their games at primary school astro pitches; and some don't even have a home at all.

[Basile Boli]

Said it before on this forum but Steins would literally be perfect for the jump to WoS or EoS facilities wise. Better than nearly all of East 3 and West 4 bar a few teams and playing squad wise probably on a par too. 

Traditionally been an East Region side when entering cups too.

If the amateur level declines further I could see them being an early jumper, especially if the SPAFA is as poor as anticipated next season.

Edited Wednesday at 12:06 by Basile Boli

[AMP28]

Agree SPAFA has some really good U19 and U21 numbers for next year but looks like its struggling for amateur clubs, wonder how many more will jump to the Caley. maybe we will get a joint West amateur league if all the teams vote with feet and join just one league.  

2 hours ago, Brad Bobley said:

I'd imagine EKYM will be heading along the WoS route given their new astro development, clubhouse and overall standard of facility, but that's probably a season or two away.

Notice they are only 10 min walk from EK thistle who are in WOS 4th, EKYM seem on the up with their facilities while the showparks could be using some redevelopment.

[stanley]

Even without mergers, it's likely that the number of Saturday afternoon west leagues will reduce naturally as the numbers of clubs continue to decrease. Last season ended with 92 clubs across four leagues (Caley, Central Scottish, Scottish AFL & Greater Glasgow). Now, there are just 76 clubs between Caley, Scottish Premier and Greater Glasgow. Go back ten years and there were 228 clubs across seven leagues (Caley, Central Scottish, Scottish AFL, Greater Glasgow, Paisley & District, North & South Lanarkshire, West of Scotland). The number in the Saturday morning leagues haven't actually increased in those ten years either (they've actually decreased just at a far smaller rate than the Saturday afternoon leagues).

Add to that the Stirling & District which as gone from 45 to just 10 clubs. There's also plenty of Stirling/Falkirk area clubs in the Caley now. Stirling & District only just surviving so far. I got the numbers from years ago from HibeeJibee's old post but it's a useful way of measuring the ongoing decline.

Edited Wednesday at 17:04 by stanley

[zenon]

Like the idea of a WoS Amateur Premier Division, I would give it a season or two before promotion to the WoS Seniors could be considered to test the waters like how there was no promotion play off from the Lowland League in its maiden season. 

Edited Wednesday at 17:29 by zenon

[scotscores]

Don't think there's any question that playing-wise, the top amateurs would probably be too good for Tier 9/10 - a look at their results in the Scottish Cup shows this (Cupar Hearts winning 5-0 at Tier 6 Abbey Vale this season, Shortlees winning at Tier 6 Tynecastle in 2018/19, and Colville Park beating 4 senior teams in the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons - including 7-0 and 5-0 wins).  But as has been said elsewhere, it's whether the clubs would have any appetite to move "up" and go from top dogs to also-rans.  There was a similar argument for the juniors remaining where they were a few seasons back, and they managed to hold out for a while, but we all know what happened there.