Potential ban on artificial pitches in the Premiership - No to just 12 clubs voting

[WattersIsGod]

51 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

It proves that "a" grass pitch, singular, can be well maintained. Other pitches have issues like drainage and shadows causing problems which are peculiar to those sites and don't exist to the same extent at Forthbank and cannot be simply solved.

Forthbank is generally a lovely surface, but to imply that all other clubs need to do to replicate it is give their pitches the right amount of love and attention is giving your ground staff far too much credit.

I appreciate we benefit from having a relatively open stadium allowing plenty of light which does make things easier.

 

[Raithie]

5 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

Would be absolutely hilarious if any club's potential promotion was impacted by it.

 

2 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

Very sad that Raith Rovers fans aren't concerned with the health and safety of the professional athletes that have to risk life and limb playing on your ligament busting, ankle shredding plastic abomination of a pitch. 

Very selfish IMO.

You are aware if we do manage to get promoted this season we wouldn't be refused playing in the Premier League next season?

[itzdrk]

5 hours ago, Raithie said:

In one of many of John Sim's 'out there' ideas a bridge or tunnel was mentioned as something the club were thinking about to get access to Balwearie. This was donkeys ago way before the new investors came in.

Tunnel is even better! 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

5 hours ago, Raithie said:

In one of many of John Sim's 'out there' ideas a bridge or tunnel was mentioned as something the club were thinking about to get access to Balwearie. This was donkeys ago way before the new investors came in.

There is a bricked up arch on the viaduct which could have been opened to permit access.

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Noting that the US national "soccer" teams no longer play on any artificial surfaces for a number of health related reasons, the obvious economics benefits for less affluent clubs using these playing surfaces may well be declared void in future by bodies outside of the football authorities.

I'm sure I recently read that they have been removed from general use in some states/US counties, not just due to health concerns, but also because of their environmental effect.

I was swayed after being strongly against them a number of years ago, after seeing the sporting benefits for communities: now I'm not so sure.

False. Most High Schools, and Junior High School too, play and practice on artificial fields. Many of the practice facilities are also indoors, which would serve to concentrate the alleged vapors.

6 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

I've emailed my club to let them know I support the banning of plastic pitches.

 

Would be absolutely hilarious if any club's potential promotion was impacted by it.

Too bad it can't happen this year, eh, as the regulations for 24-25 have already been distributed with artificial pitches allowed.

[f_c_dundee]

8 hours ago, Toby said:

Have you tried booking astro pitches for training/matches in Fife recently?

There are so many kids teams on the go and expanding that it's getting competitive for the coaches!

My bairn has quite enjoyed visits to play against Raith CC and getting to score at Stark's Park. Not as feckin cold as Bayview either.

[Jamie_M]

Personally don't like the plastic pitches so would be more in favour of the ban than against it.

Using the Dundee example weakens your argument. That's not specifically a grass pitch issue - it's a failure to adequately maintain it issue which can be just as true for artificial.pitches.

Would the Dunfermline burst pipe issue even have been completely mitigated by an artificial pitch?

 

 

[101]

14 minutes ago, Jamie_M said:

Would the Dunfermline burst pipe issue even have been completely mitigated by an artificial pitch?

I don't think anyone has gone to the expense of laying under soil heating with an astro pitch, so yes.

[Dundee Hibernian]

3 hours ago, TxRover said:

False. Most High Schools, and Junior High School too, play and practice on artificial fields.

You'll have to clarify that sweeping statement ("False"): I think you've misunderstood what I wrote.  > Noting that the US national "soccer" teams no longer play on any artificial surfaces for a number of health related reasons   The US national sides, both male and female, don't play on artificial surfaces any more. That's a fact.

 

> I recently read that they have been removed from general use in some states/US counties, not just due to health concerns, but also because of their environmental effect    This is also true, a simple Google search would confirm the fact.

 

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

> I recently read that they have been removed from general use in some states/US counties, not just due to health concerns, but also because of their environmental effect    This is also true, a simple Google search would confirm the fact.

There are a few (very few) jurisdictions where laws have been changed to allow the banning of artificial turf fields, but few have passed. For instance, a recent study (2023) on sports fields shows “…in some areas, school or park officials have announced they will no longer use synthetic fields, but there has been no federal, or even state, ruling against them.”

The professional sports are trying to reduce the artificial fields, but given some stadiums cannot support natural grass  there are issues. The college level game has always been a bit more tilted to natural grass, mainly because it’s played more in the South, where the climate allows decent fields throughout the season. High School sports are heavily played on artificial surfaces, and there is very little in the way of a push to change it, simply due to costs. Many high schools are in districts that have fewer stadiums than schools…my own district has one stadium and four schools, resulting in a Thursday night and Friday night game while the other two teams have to schedule away matches, except when they play each other.

The biggest problem right now is disposal of waste materials from removed pitches…but that is also even more true of asphalt shingles and automobile tyres..

[Jamie_M]

58 minutes ago, 101 said:

I don't think anyone has gone to the expense of laying under soil heating with an astro pitch, so yes.

Would they rip it out or could it still be there with the potential to burst. And could a nearby pipe bursting (rather than one under it) still lead to a waterlogged artificial pitch - thus making that another sloppy example in the grass vs artificial debate.

[DiegoDiego]

9 hours ago, Jamie_M said:

Using the Dundee example weakens your argument. That's not specifically a grass pitch issue - it's a failure to adequately maintain it issue which can be just as true for artificial.pitches.

When was the last time a match was postponed because an artificial pitch wasn't maintained adequately? To frame the issue as "just as true" for both surfaces seems like your already acknowledge bias coming through.

[Dundee Hibernian]

8 hours ago, TxRover said:

There are a few (very few) jurisdictions where laws have been changed to allow the banning of artificial turf fields, but few have passed. For instance, a recent study (2023) on sports fields shows “…in some areas, school or park officials have announced they will no longer use synthetic fields, but there has been no federal, or even state, ruling against them.”

The professional sports are trying to reduce the artificial fields, but given some stadiums cannot support natural grass  there are issues. The college level game has always been a bit more tilted to natural grass, mainly because it’s played more in the South, where the climate allows decent fields throughout the season. High School sports are heavily played on artificial surfaces, and there is very little in the way of a push to change it, simply due to costs. Many high schools are in districts that have fewer stadiums than schools…my own district has one stadium and four schools, resulting in a Thursday night and Friday night game while the other two teams have to schedule away matches, except when they play each other.

The biggest problem right now is disposal of waste materials from removed pitches…but that is also even more true of asphalt shingles and automobile tyres..

Therefore, from your comments, when you earlier stated 'False' in relation to my original post, you actually meant 'True'.

You are strongly in favour of artificial pitch use, I'm on the fence and see the arguments. 

The 'simply due to costs' part above is central to the issue, good grass is better than good artificial (and Raith have the best I've seen), but at crucial points of the year many clubs struggle to provide a good grass surface. Earlier I noted the financial benefits to clubs of operating artificial surfaces, but the present debate is about use in the top league.

If all clubs get a vote on the issue, which given the structure of the SPFL I think they should, should all clubs have to follow the decision, that is, install artificial surfaces or natural grass playing areas?

[CityDave94]

How would a ban on artificial surfaces in the top flight have an effect on the playoffs?

I can think of a few scenarios that create an absolute farce, just Scottish football being Scottish football.

[Molotov]

19 hours ago, Toby said:

That’s not your argument though. You said that grass pitches won’t work in this country if we operate a winter season, despite overwhelming evidence to contradict you.

Whether you prefer the Stark’s Park pitch to the Cappielow one is neither here nor there- it doesn’t support your desperately flawed argument in any way, shape or form.

Cappielow is unlikely to see the top flight again so nothing for you to worry about. 
 

[Molotov]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

When was the last time a match was postponed because an artificial pitch wasn't maintained adequately? To frame the issue as "just as true" for both surfaces seems like your already acknowledge bias coming through.

“Livingston’s Premiership match against Ross County on Saturday has been postponed after a pitch inspection scheduled for Saturday morning.

Match officials looked at the artificial surface at the Tony Macaroni Arena at 9.30am, with an early decision taken to call off the game due to a frozen pitch.“

 

Games in the top flight with grass pitches and undersoil heating were played that day.

[101]

10 hours ago, Jamie_M said:

Would they rip it out or could it still be there with the potential to burst. And could a nearby pipe bursting (rather than one under it) still lead to a waterlogged artificial pitch - thus making that another sloppy example in the grass vs artificial debate.

You would have to have a pretty inept contractor to leave water in an undersoil heating system before concreting over the top of it.

It is possible to have weather related postponements on an AstroTurf pitch but there are less of them than a grass pitch.

[CityDave94]

37 minutes ago, Molotov said:

“Livingston’s Premiership match against Ross County on Saturday has been postponed after a pitch inspection scheduled for Saturday morning.

Match officials looked at the artificial surface at the Tony Macaroni Arena at 9.30am, with an early decision taken to call off the game due to a frozen pitch.“

 

Games in the top flight with grass pitches and undersoil heating were played that day.

Just the game at Motherwell. Kilmarnock played that day and have an artificial surface. I don't see any other games on the fixture list that were played that day in the top flight. Which other game were on?

The only other games to survive that day in the SPFL whom have grass was at Firhill and the Caledonian Stadium, no one else did. The other two leagues, the only three games that survived were on an artificial surfaces, Hamilton, Stenhousmuir and Forfar, all the others were off.

I would say Livingston pitch is an very much outlyer and not a good example of all artificial pitches. Livingston really need to sort themselves out.

[Molotov]

12 minutes ago, CityDave94 said:

Just the game at Motherwell. Kilmarnock played that day and have an artificial surface. I don't see any other games on the fixture list that were played that day in the top flight. Which other game were on?

The only other games to survive that day in the SPFL whom have grass was at Firhill and the Caledonian Stadium, no one else did. The other two leagues, the only three games that survived were on an artificial surfaces, Hamilton, Stenhousmuir and Forfar, all the others were off.

I would say Livingston pitch is a very much outlyer and not a good example of all artificial pitches. Livingston really need to sort themselves out.

Other top flight games played on Sunday iirc.

 

[CityDave94]

1 hour ago, Molotov said:

Other top flight games played on Sunday iirc.

 

You meant that weekend not that day?