Dundee United 24/25

[Gibby82]

1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

I don't doubt it, but worth noting he said that before switching to a back 4 for the first time this season during the Rangers game.

Obviously the last thing he'll want to do having spent the summer recruiting for a specific formation, is to throw that out the window, but then, we'll continue to see Babunski looking like a lost fish out on the right.

The fact he switches to a 352 nearly every game now is fairly illustrative that even he can see it's not working.

VdS knocks his pan in (in a role I really don't think suits him) before he brings on the two forwards.

It's nothing if not predictable.

Aye, remembered that right after posting...

Still though think the system, defensively at least, is here to stay but you're right about Babunski. What he offered earlier in the season has been nullified. At the same time we looked far too open with just him and Sibbald in the middle. Could you play Sibbald and Docherty with Babunski a little further forward? Probably doesn't completely suit him either and impacts Trapanovski. Tough one, Goodwin needs to come up with an answer soon though.

Have a feeling he might change it to 3-5-2 on Saturday with Trap and VDS on the bench.

Edited yesterday at 22:07 by Gibby82

[Pull My Strings]

I think it's just a matter of time before the 343 gets ditched entirely. I'm clearly much less qualified to talk about formations,  and I most certainly haven't studied various teams around Europe, but it seems obvious to me that in order for that formation to work, you need to actually play three forwards and to trust that the two midfielders will be able to hold their own defensively.  

Fair to say that he had the courage to do that during the League Cup group stage, which wasn't great but which we managed to scrape through by virtue of simply having better players than most of the opposition.  And then it worked first half against Dundee, before they switched formation and took a grip on the midfield. Undeterred he tried again against County for the first half,  before switching formation at half time and since then has switched formation in every single game, and has made more and more compromises to the initial shape. Which is fine but there comes a point when you have to accept that you're no longer playing a 343 because you've stuck an extra centre half in midfield,or pulled the right sided forward so far back that he is no longer in a position close down or run at the defence, and you right wing back can't pass forward because there's never anyone in front of him. 

The compromises have already been made and the shape makes less sense each time - asking a centre half to notionally play midfield, or a central midfielder to notionally play as a forward.

He's got all the tools he needs to play a very good 433 or 4231 with all his best players in their best position, or a 352 if he's determined to stick with three centre halfs, but  I think he's already given up on the 343 in practice and now it's just a case of giving up on the theory.

[Granny Danger]

I do not want to be too critical of the recruitment but when looking at alternate formations the one thing that is sadly lacking is a different time of striker to partner VdS or Moult.  Why we didn’t address that rather than bringing in Dalby is a mystery.

Not sure if Miller Thomson or Meshack could fulfil that role, I wonder if it’s been tried in any training exercises.

BTW I know Dalby linked up well with Moult for the goal at Motherwell but I still feel a different option would be useful.

 

[ArabThor83]

The spine of the team is still pretty much the same as last year and the 4231 which worked ok.

Went and watched the wee derby yesterday mainly to see the fringe players. Had hoped for Meshak being on the right in a 4231 but cant see him being a regular unfortunately and after seeing Dalby in a full game, can't see him being any more than an Alex Greive type loan signing and not sure why he was brought in other than backup. Kai played RWB - always thought he might be a good center forward option with Moult.

Sevelj and Docherty in the 2, Trappa (initially), VDS and Thomson in the 3 with Moult up front would be my shout. Middleton should be pushing Trappa for the left side slot.

Hoping JG doesn't do a Jack Ross and stubbornly continue with a system the players aren't up to or isn't working.

[Butters Scotch]

Defensively we are one of the best teams in the league now so I can't see Goodwin deriving from the 3 CB's as it's worked to a certain extent but I can certainly see us shifting to a 3-5-2 more than any other formation now to give us a bit more attacking threat and I think it provides the best balance.

However this also leaves the problem of whether we put Trap upfront or leave him on the bench. He is one of our best players so leaving him out would be insane IMO and think he would be worth a go as a support striker off of either VDS or Moult that oaccaisionly drifts off to the LW to link with Ferry. 

Walton

Stephenson/Sevelj Irish Gallagher Graham Ferry

Sibbald Docherty

Babunski

VDS and Trap

 

[FTOF]

6 hours ago, ArabThor83 said:

Hoping JG doesn't do a Jack Ross and stubbornly continue with a system the players aren't up to or isn't working.

You'd hope he'd have learned since he managed us.

In the 2021/22 season it took him until the winter break to change from a back three system (that wasn't working) to a back four.

[Glen Scotia]

2 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

Defensively we are one of the best teams in the league now so I can't see Goodwin deriving from the 3 CB's as it's worked to a certain extent but I can certainly see us shifting to a 3-5-2 more than any other formation now to give us a bit more attacking threat and I think it provides the best balance.

However this also leaves the problem of whether we put Trap upfront or leave him on the bench. He is one of our best players so leaving him out would be insane IMO and think he would be worth a go as a support striker off of either VDS or Moult that oaccaisionly drifts off to the LW to link with Ferry. 

Walton

Stephenson/Sevelj Irish Gallagher Graham Ferry

Sibbald Docherty

Babunski

VDS and Trap

 

At first glance dropping Trap does seem ridiculous, however, if it means we become more of a goal threat then it has to considered. 

Can he play instead of Sibbald? 

It wasn't long ago we had 11 players and bench full of inexperience. Our squad is stronger so therefore good players might need to be dropped to support the system and benefit the team. 

Bringing a fresh Trap on with 30 to play might not be the worst idea 

[Granny Danger]

38 minutes ago, Glen Scotia said:

At first glance dropping Trap does seem ridiculous, however, if it means we become more of a goal threat then it has to considered. 

Can he play instead of Sibbald? 

It wasn't long ago we had 11 players and bench full of inexperience. Our squad is stronger so therefore good players might need to be dropped to support the system and benefit the team. 

Bringing a fresh Trap on with 30 to play might not be the worst idea 

From what I’ve seen he has a different skill set to Sibbald, don’t think we should be trying to shoehorn him in.

Other ways to utilise Trapanovski.