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On 24/09/2024 at 07:47, Pull My Strings said:

I think it's just a matter of time before the 343 gets ditched entirely. I'm clearly much less qualified to talk about formations,  and I most certainly haven't studied various teams around Europe, but it seems obvious to me that in order for that formation to work, you need to actually play three forwards and to trust that the two midfielders will be able to hold their own defensively.  

Fair to say that he had the courage to do that during the League Cup group stage, which wasn't great but which we managed to scrape through by virtue of simply having better players than most of the opposition.  And then it worked first half against Dundee, before they switched formation and took a grip on the midfield. Undeterred he tried again against County for the first half,  before switching formation at half time and since then has switched formation in every single game, and has made more and more compromises to the initial shape. Which is fine but there comes a point when you have to accept that you're no longer playing a 343 because you've stuck an extra centre half in midfield,or pulled the right sided forward so far back that he is no longer in a position close down or run at the defence, and you right wing back can't pass forward because there's never anyone in front of him. 

The compromises have already been made and the shape makes less sense each time - asking a centre half to notionally play midfield, or a central midfielder to notionally play as a forward.

He's got all the tools he needs to play a very good 433 or 4231 with all his best players in their best position, or a 352 if he's determined to stick with three centre halfs, but  I think he's already given up on the 343 in practice and now it's just a case of giving up on the theory.

Agree, I’d rather it was 4231.

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Is there really a difference between 4231 and 433?

Surely both use three midfielders (two rotating the defensive role and one further ahead).

ETA - I’m thinking who would be our best XI in these two formations and it would be exactly the same players.

Edited by Granny Danger
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12 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Is there really a difference between 4231 and 433?

Surely both use three midfielders (two rotating the defensive role and one further ahead).

ETA - I’m thinking who would be our best XI in these two formations and it would be exactly the same players.

Its much of a muchness - your team could take multiple different strategies in either, but at the most basic level, folk tend to think 1 sitting midfielder in a 433 and 2 sitters in 4231.

The most important point for me is getting a shape that suits our best players.

Babunski is a central player that isn't great in a 2.

Traps is a wide player, that likes to kick inside so is ideally suited to the left of a front 3. And just as luck might have it, we have multiple options that can play on the other side.

Any variant of 3 atb the back shoehorns at least 1 of them into a position they're not great in.

In Doc and Sibs we have (lets be honest) two average Premiership calibre midfielders, so let them do what they do best in protecting the back line winning tackles and making the simple passes to the more creative players ahead of them.

The weakest part of our team - without doubt - is our centre back options, but rather than filling that gap by playing more of them, pick yer 2 best and protect them with the midfield and what are good full-backs, that can play the ball up the line rather than having to bomb on as the only wide option.

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6 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Huge credit to Graham stepping up to take the penalty and despatching it so clinically.

 

Bit of a surprise to see him as the penalty scorer today but fair play to him. It points to peaks a lot to his growing confidence and his role in the team that he took the responsibility for that so late in the game. It's good to see.

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