Germany - Scotland

[Acastus]

4 points to get through? We are getting 0 points. 

[Acastus]

I was all for ignoring the recent form and thought we'd turn up for the big games but f me he's got to change it drastically. At least try something different and if it goes tits up fair enough but I'd rather that than wait til it's too late and chasing the game again. 

[GordonS]

47 minutes ago, Menzel said:

Struggling to think of any positive from that performance. Utterly atrocious from front to back and a shocking lack of organisation. If you're Hungary or Switzerland it tells you very little about Germany but a lot about Scotland, and as two streetwise teams they'll be rubbing their hands at the chance to play us.

Honestly, that was the case before tonight and we've mostly been in denial about it.

35 minutes ago, RudiSkacel51 said:

Disagree,

Our squad isn't pish though imo,

 

Our squad is wildly unbalanced. We have to put a converted left back at centre half, and all our other choices there are way short of the level we need. The same is true up front, where we have no good goalscorers. For the first time in a long while we don't have a reliable keeper. I'm not saying they're "pish", I'm saying you don't see too many players of that level in teams that are in the top 16 in Europe, which is where we really ought to be and need to be in order to qualify for World Cups and for Euro knock-out rounds.

Some sides will have to carry a weaker player or two but tonight we had four, maybe five, that don't belong at this level, and all but one were in the spine of the team.

Over 25 years ago I started asking when anyone would notice that the standard of player coming through was well below previous generations. I stopped asking about 10 years ago when I realised almost nobody in any position to do something about it even recognises the problem. What's the point, I might as well stop caring and enjoy the spectacle. 

10 minutes ago, ArtemisClydeFrog said:

Perhaps we should stop exclusively judging players by where they play their football.

Oli McBurnie just spent a season in the self-declared best league in the world despite being a truly awful footballer, so your case is proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

[RudiSkacel51]

9 minutes ago, Central Belt Caley said:

I get what you’re on about and I got a few people earlier quoting me but I was in the pub. 
 

You’re saying we have current EPL players and ex-EPL players, however the Germany lads are mostly current Champions League players. Very little of our players get anywhere near the Germany team.

I’m not saying the performance put in by the team wasn’t under par however some of the bed wetting that we’ve been shagged by a far superior team is a bit over the top 

Yep Agreed mate,

Clearly Germany are a better team,

I agree they have players playing at a higher level than ours,

However they're not a France, They're not an England or Portugal etc

I suppose my main gripe with Scotland tonight is that we have seasoned Epl players in our team, Guys who should know how to close down space and attempt to stop Germany from doing what they like with the ball,

Kroos has a cigar in his mouth and slippers on 

 We could all see it unfolding like a car crash but nothing was done about it,

The players sleepwalked and ended up 2-0 down within the first 20 mins,

We have our captian (the vice captain of Liverpool) not attempting to put pressure on their winger for the cross for the first goal,

I just found it an extremely poor performance all round, 

Like I say wasn't expecting us to win but I expected alot more from Scotland and more professionalism and organization,

They look like they are just happy to make up the numbers imo.

 

[ScottishLoon]

Hypothetically who would people have as the next Scotland manager?

Would have to be moyes right?

[itzdrk]

I guess it can't* get any worse than tonight 

Spoiler

Surely

So whatever happens from now is basically a bonus. 

[RudiSkacel51]

27 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Honestly, that was the case before tonight and we've mostly been in denial about it.

Our squad is wildly unbalanced. We have to put a converted left back at centre half, and all our other choices there are way short of the level we need. The same is true up front, where we have no good goalscorers. For the first time in a long while we don't have a reliable keeper. I'm not saying they're "pish", I'm saying you don't see too many players of that level in teams that are in the top 16 in Europe, which is where we really ought to be and need to be in order to qualify for World Cups and for Euro knock-out rounds.

Some sides will have to carry a weaker player or two but tonight we had four, maybe five, that don't belong at this level, and all but one were in the spine of the team.

Over 25 years ago I started asking when anyone would notice that the standard of player coming through was well below previous generations. I stopped asking about 10 years ago when I realised almost nobody in any position to do something about it even recognises the problem. What's the point, I might as well stop caring and enjoy the spectacle. 

Oli McBurnie just spent a season in the self-declared best league in the world despite being a truly awful footballer, so your case is proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

How many Australian players belonged at the last world cup? When they reached the last 16?

How many Welsh players outside of Gareth Bale belonged at the Euros when they went to the semi final? 

Excuses, excuses.

The fact is we have as good a group of players as we are ever likely to get, 

But they didn't turn up, for what reason I don't know.

 

[Fraser Fyvie]

5 minutes ago, RudiSkacel51 said:

How many Australian players belonged at the last world cup? When they reached the last 16?

How many Welsh players outside of Gareth Bale belonged at the Euros when they went to the semi final? 

Excuses, excuses.

The fact is we have as good a group of players as we are ever likely to get, 

But they didn't turn up, for what reason I don't know.

 

Those teams overperformed tbf. Fact is we have one of the weakest squads in the tournament.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

25 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Over 25 years ago I started asking when anyone would notice that the standard of player coming through was well below previous generations. I stopped asking about 10 years ago when I realised almost nobody in any position to do something about it even recognises the problem. What's the point, I might as well stop caring and enjoy the spectacle. 

This was asked (by me) further back than 25 years ago. 
And, to be brutal, nobody in any position to address the problem actually recognises the problem. 

So aye, stop caring and enjoy the spectacle.  (and aye, I know that’s depressing).

[GordonS]

2 minutes ago, RudiSkacel51 said:

How many Australian players belonged at the last world cup? When they reached the last 16?

How many Welsh players outside of Gareth Bale belonged at the Euros when they went to the semi final? 

Excuses, excuses.

There are always outliers. But there's a reason why we call them outliers. Leicester winning the league didn't mean every club with their resources just wasn't trying hard enough.

I mentioned the spine precisely because of Wales. They had a very good keeper and centre half, two very good midfielders and a God-tier goalscorer. We have four midfielders, two left backs and one or two crocked right backs. You can't make an effective team without defence or attack.

Australia's qualifying path to the World Cup is much easier than ours. We used to need to be in the top 13 in Europe, now it's the top 16. Australia had one impressive result at the World Cup, a 1-0 win against an out-of-sorts Denmark. France beat them in a game not unlike what we suffered tonight. There's no lesson in there for us.

Quote

The fact is we have as good a group of players as we are ever likely to get, 

Given the number of kids and adults playing the game, its importance and the resources available, we should have a squad comparable to Switzerland's. We so incredibly don't.

[sparky88]

2 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

This was asked (by me) further back than 25 years ago. 
And, to be brutal, nobody in any position to address the problem actually recognises the problem. 

So aye, stop caring and enjoy the spectacle.  (and aye, I know that’s depressing).

PlayStations, winter football, the pyramid.

Hope that helps.

[GordonS]

2 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

This was asked (by me) further back than 25 years ago. 
And, to be brutal, nobody in any position to address the problem actually recognises the problem. 

So aye, stop caring and enjoy the spectacle.  (and aye, I know that’s depressing).

One of the reasons I was so determined to get to the 1998 World Cup despite being a penniless starving student was I felt it could be a long time before we were back at a tournament. I used to rant about all our failings, come back from age-grade internationals horrified by our terrible technique, but eventually you realise nothing is going to change. We have under-13s playing 11-a-side on full size pitches, often two or three competitive matches every weekend. The coaches are really proud of it, but the rest of the developed footballing world is laughing at is.

England are in a similar boat, comfortably the biggest under-performers in world football. But even they've upped their game on youth football.

But I'm going to Germany on Monday to join the fun and I'm going to have a good time regardless. Life's too short to be that pissed off at our football culture.

[GordonS]

10 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

PlayStations, winter football, the pyramid.

Hope that helps.

Do they not have Playstations in other countries?

Denmark play winter football too. And a Dutch winter really isn't any better than ours - it rains more, on more days, and is colder and windier in Amsterdam than it is in Edinburgh. In midwinter sunset is about half an hour later in Amsterdam than in the Central Belt, it doesn't make much difference.

We've had a pyramid for about 5 years. It has almost nothing to do with youth development anyway, except it has led to some development leagues that are pretty good for non-elite under 20s. 

The heart of the real answer is young kids playing 11-a-side on full size pitches and goals, competitive games and a focus on positional discipline and not making mistakes (which you can learn when you're older) at the expense of technique, which is everything in the modern game.

Edited June 15 by GordonS

[RudiSkacel51]

11 minutes ago, GordonS said:

There are always outliers. But there's a reason why we call them outliers. Leicester winning the league didn't mean every club with their resources just wasn't trying hard enough.

I mentioned the spine precisely because of Wales. They had a very good keeper and centre half, two very good midfielders and a God-tier goalscorer. We have four midfielders, two left backs and one or two crocked right backs. You can't make an effective team without defence or attack.

Australia's qualifying path to the World Cup is much easier than ours. We used to need to be in the top 13 in Europe, now it's the top 16. Australia had one impressive result at the World Cup, a 1-0 win against an out-of-sorts Denmark. France beat them in a game not unlike what we suffered tonight. There's no lesson in there for us.

Given the number of kids and adults playing the game, its importance and the resources available, we should have a squad comparable to Switzerland's. We so incredibly don't.

Fair points to be fair.

 

It just feels all so frustrating,

 

I think Hickey, Ferguson and dykes are Huge misses for us too.

 

We need a better goalie too, not convinced with Gunn.

[sparky88]

23 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Do they not have Playstations in other countries?

Denmark play winter football too. And a Dutch winter really isn't any better than ours - it rains more, on more days, and is colder and windier in Amsterdam than it is in Edinburgh. In midwinter sunset is about half an hour later in Amsterdam than in the Central Belt, it doesn't make much difference.

We've had a pyramid for about 5 years. It has almost nothing to do with youth development anyway, except it has led to some development leagues that are pretty good for non-elite under 20s. 

The heart of the real answer is young kids playing 11-a-side on full size pitches and goals, competitive games and a focus on positional discipline and not making mistakes (which you can learn when you're older) at the expense of technique, which is everything in the modern game.

Haha I was being sarcastic. It's the answers that comes up on here every time Scotland ship more than 2 goals in a match/ a non Old Firm team loses before the 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League. 

[tamba_trio]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Loads of countries' national anthems mention other countries. Notably the Dutch, who have bravely managed to overcome the dreadful burden of some song lyrics about Spain to reach three World Cup finals and win the Euros. Oh, and be one of the most equal, wealthiest and healthiest societies in the world.

The American anthem is about their war of independence with England, same as ours. They seem to have done alright in a few things, sporting and otherwise.

The fact you actually use the word cringe while exemplifying the Scottish cringe shows n impressive lack of self-awareness.

I dunno, I can see why Flower of Scotland is particularly cringe. When the US (for example) sing about independence, it kinda works (because they are independent). We start belting out how we’ve fought and died for “yer wee bit hill and glen”, when, in reality, we’re a bunch of cowards who are happy to doff our cap to the Union Jack and accept whatever scraps our overlords throw to us. Fought and died? 55% of us found putting a tick in a box too stressful.

So, whilst I still get a bit goosepimply at the song, I can see why some might find it a bit cringe. The song suggests that we are a proud nation, whilst reality suggests something very different.

With regards to why are we so shite, I think there’s a couple of reasons. At youth level, we’re still favouring strong, tall kids over skilful. There’s a short-termism to the entire game here (coaches would rather a successful youth team, than one which develops players). And how many of us knew incredibly talented young guys who were utter wazoos and, predictably, pissed it all away?  I don’t think teams are proactive enough at saving those guys from themselves.

And our teams don’t produce enough. Look at Celtic - the most resources in the land, title winners basically every year. A team that could have their pick of youngsters. And the last proper striker they brought through their ranks who managed to start 50 games for them was Gerry Creamey, 30 years ago.

 

 

 

[Swordfishtrombone]

Scotlands rope a dope technique playing out to perfection so far. 

Edited June 15 by Swordfishtrombone

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, tamba_trio said:

I dunno, I can see why Flower of Scotland is particularly cringe. When the US (for example) sing about independence, it kinda works (because they are independent). We start belting out how we’ve fought and died for “yer wee bit hill and glen”, when, in reality, we’re a bunch of cowards who are happy to doff our cap to the Union Jack and accept whatever scraps our overlords throw to us. Fought and died? 55% of us found putting a tick in a box too stressful.

So, whilst I still get a bit goosepimply at the song, I can see why some might find it a bit cringe. The song suggests that we are a proud nation, whilst reality suggests something very different.

With regards to why are we so shite, I think there’s a couple of reasons. At youth level, we’re still favouring strong, tall kids over skilful. There’s a short-termism to the entire game here (coaches would rather a successful youth team, than one which develops players). And how many of us knew incredibly talented young guys who were utter wazoos and, predictably, pissed it all away?  I don’t think teams are proactive enough at saving those guys from themselves.

And our teams don’t produce enough. Look at Celtic - the most resources in the land, title winners basically every year. A team that could have their pick of youngsters. And the last proper striker they brought through their ranks who managed to start 50 games for them was Gerry Creamey, 30 years ago.

 

 

 

They were still fighting the British when it was written, firstly as a poem, about a battle at Fort McHenry.

[Well Fan]

Watching the match now on catch up. We've just went 5-1 down...... if we can just hang in there long enough , we might just be able to take this to a tie breaker. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Singing about a loss. Have some pride and bin it.

Anyway, "och aye that wee bit hill and glen" sounds like something they'd say on Take The High Road.