Reason for horrible exit: lack of quality or overly-defensive tactics?

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

I think that could be a pertinent point. Whatever Adams' strengths, holding onto the ball until support arrives was not one of them in Germany. 

 

It wasn't Adams that was the issue, the service upto him was piss poor most of the tournament due to the defensive tactics we were playing, not getting enough bodies in and around him etc.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

25 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

It wasn't Adams that was the issue, the service upto him was piss poor most of the tournament due to the defensive tactics we were playing, not getting enough bodies in and around him etc.

Agreed- so if you want to play that way either the midfield need to be closer or you need someone else who can wait longer till they get there.

Edited Friday at 11:18 by SouthLanarkshireWhite

[velo army]

4 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Agreed. Creating history was aspirational and a realistic ambition to set. For fans setting Scotland's maximum capability as their minimum expectation is the unrealistic part and as you say it required luck, overperformance or one of our opponents to implode. 

We definitely created history, so we can at least tick that box.

[Bogbrush1903]

4 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Agreed. Creating history was aspirational and a realistic ambition to set. For fans setting Scotland's maximum capability as their minimum expectation is the unrealistic part and as you say it required luck, overperformance or one of our opponents to implode. 

Ah yes, 'creating history' (whatever that means) by reaching the last 16 for the third time.

We had elements of luck, both our goals were re-directed into the net by opposition.

'Overperform' sounds like a negative.

Do you think we needed the Hungarians to play poorly to get a win against them?

The real issue is, for whatever reason, we under-performed in all three games, we didn't give ourselves a chance to see how we matched up against any of our opponents, we didn't play well enough for luck to intervene and hand us three points, we didn't put our opponents under any pressure for them to implode, because we under-performed, we were shite, that's the reason, and no amount of posts from you is going to change that. 

[Basile Boli]

Lack of player quality can be overcome with decent tactics, look at our qualifying results for evidence of that.

Once you get to the actual tournament though you need to be braver, look at Romania/Georgia/Slovenia/Slovakia - nobody would argue they’re better than us but have all had an identity and played positive football and got results.

We tried to shitfest our way to 4 points (how that was ever achievable I don’t know), accepted defeat v Germany before a ball was kicked and shoehorned as many centre mids into the team as we could neglecting any sort of natural width.

Deserved all we got.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

1 hour ago, Basile Boli said:

Lack of player quality can be overcome with decent tactics, look at our qualifying results for evidence of that.

Once you get to the actual tournament though you need to be braver, look at Romania/Georgia/Slovenia/Slovakia - nobody would argue they’re better than us but have all had an identity and played positive football and got results.

We tried to shitfest our way to 4 points (how that was ever achievable I don’t know), accepted defeat v Germany before a ball was kicked and shoehorned as many centre mids into the team as we could neglecting any sort of natural width.

Deserved all we got.

I think suggesting Slovenia played positive football to get their results is a stretch

[Basile Boli]

30 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I think suggesting Slovenia played positive football to get their results is a stretch

Yeah possibly but at least they went 2 up front every game.

[Butters Scotch]

2 hours ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

Agreed- so if you want to play that way either the midfield need to be closer or you need someone else who can wait longer till they get there.

Yeah, it's a similar story with Dykes aswell where he's often isolated especially since other teams have caught on to the way we play

[2426255]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Do you think we needed the Hungarians to play poorly to get a win against them?

No, I wouldn't say that. It's a coin flip game imo. Play that game 10 times we win, draw and lose 3 or 4 times. 

Sort of like yer Dundee v St Mirren or similar.

[Billy Jean King]

19 hours ago, 2426255 said:

No, I wouldn't say that. It's a coin flip game imo. Play that game 10 times we win, draw and lose 3 or 4 times. 

Sort of like yer Dundee v St Mirren or similar.

Last 10 Saints v Dundee league games it's 7-1-2, not the best analogy but I get your drift. 

[Lurkst]

Apologies if posted already, but I watched this yesterday and thought it was decent analysis...

 

[Maltese falcon]

1 hour ago, Lurkst said:

Apologies if posted already, but I watched this yesterday and thought it was decent analysis...

 

I watched this a few days ago. I agree it is good analysis.
Unfortunately it ended up leaving me more depressed.
 

As I thought about it - it was plausible, the tactics reply on getting very few chances. If one is scored/penalty is give all is great and we move on.
Though It left me questioning our good results/perfornances.   We need an incredibly rate of converting chances for these tactics to work.

Norway Away - if we don't score those 2 chances, nobody would come away thinking we deserved to win that match ?  does qualifying campaign stall?

Spain home & Denmark home (last campaign) was different we didnt have many chances but the ambition and speed, crispness of play was more positive

[Bing.McCrosby]

On 28/06/2024 at 12:18, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

Agreed- so if you want to play that way either the midfield need to be closer or you need someone else who can wait longer till they get there.

I think if Adams had have been able to hold the ball up until support arrived he would be the greatest link man ever to play football.

[Chripper]

It won't be the magic bullet, but once Ben Doak makes the breakthrough, he'll add an attacking element that we lack.

Wouldn't hurt to produce a top class striker, either.

[DA Baracus]

6 hours ago, Maltese falcon said:

I watched this a few days ago. I agree it is good analysis.
Unfortunately it ended up leaving me more depressed.
 

As I thought about it - it was plausible, the tactics reply on getting very few chances. If one is scored/penalty is give all is great and we move on.
Though It left me questioning our good results/perfornances.   We need an incredibly rate of converting chances for these tactics to work.

Norway Away - if we don't score those 2 chances, nobody would come away thinking we deserved to win that match ?  does qualifying campaign stall?

Spain home & Denmark home (last campaign) was different we didnt have many chances but the ambition and speed, crispness of play was more positive

In all the games you mention we weren't trembling, cowardly shitebags.

In all those games we believed we could win and we tried to create chances.

[Maltese falcon]

11 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

In all the games you mention we weren't trembling, cowardly shitebags.

In all those games we believed we could win and we tried to create chances.

Agree to large extent there was just more posittive energy.

Though against Norway we had to 2 shots in Total.  Against Spain 3 Shots on Target.

Mctominay apparently had the highest goals to shot rate in qualifyin and Scotland had lowest shots in qualifying for any team that eventually qualified

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, Maltese falcon said:

Agree to large extent there was just more posittive energy.

Though against Norway we had to 2 shots in Total.  Against Spain 3 Shots on Target.

Mctominay apparently had the highest goals to shot rate in qualifyin and Scotland had lowest shots in qualifying for any team that eventually qualified

Therein lies the issue, we carried a lot of luck during qualifying to convert the few chances we created. There is only so long that can last before one of those chances results in a shot off the post or keeper making a great save, wins turn into draws and draws into losses. To make it worse, we are not even that solid anymore either, consistently losing soft goals. 

We need to adapt our system now in order to give us a better chance of winning. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 28/06/2024 at 13:16, Basile Boli said:

Lack of player quality can be overcome with decent tactics, look at our qualifying results for evidence of that.

Once you get to the actual tournament though you need to be braver, look at Romania/Georgia/Slovenia/Slovakia - nobody would argue they’re better than us but have all had an identity and played positive football and got results.

We tried to shitfest our way to 4 points (how that was ever achievable I don’t know), accepted defeat v Germany before a ball was kicked and shoehorned as many centre mids into the team as we could neglecting any sort of natural width.

Deserved all we got.

Well we could actually have held onto our lead against Switzerland instead of flinging it away , parking the bus successfully like away to Ukraine for example

And we would have just needed a draw against Hungary. ! ! !

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 29/06/2024 at 20:02, DA Baracus said:

In all the games you mention we weren't trembling, cowardly shitebags.

In all those games we believed we could win and we tried to create chances.

We usually have some chance of a result if we are playing at Hampden