Londonwell Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I never understand why folk piss on Corbyn so much when the alternative is a neoliberal of some sort. I think a lot of the criticism (on here anyway) is because people see Corbyn's deficiencies as a neoliberal enabler. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I don't follow the logic there He's so shite he's making Labour unelectable. Free hand to the Tories. ETA. I personally think the PLP are just as big an issue as Corbyn but I come at it from the angle that Labour are a fucking disgrace/useless from top to bottom. Edited October 28, 2019 by Londonwell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Granny Danger said: As an answer to the thread question; you need someone who is willing to buy male prostitutes cocaine. Is there a specific reason you found it necessary to use the word "male"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Since their formation, with the odd exception, Labour have been the party of permanent opposition. They almost luxuriate in it. The people that Labour say they represent.....the 'working class'....hardly exist these days. Well, not in the conventional sense. I still think Corbyn believes that your 'working class' Labour voter works in manufacturing and is a union member. He/she votes Labour because his/her mum and dad voted Labour and Corbyn and his cult believes that they always will. These days are gone. Your average 'working class' voter these days owns his house, has never met anybody that works in manufacturing or is in a union, has Sky and Netflix, wants a bigger car and is much more concerned with getting the immigrants out than he is with improving the living conditions of his fellow working man. Labour in Scotland have been obliterated because traditional Labour voters gravitated towards a progressive SNP that hold the middle ground in the Scottish political scene. I suspect that Labour voters in the rest of the UK will jump ship soon as well....and because there is no real 'centre ground' party in English politics many of them will simply follow their prejudices and vote for the Brexit party or the Tories. If Nicola Sturgeon was leader of UK Labour, they would romp home at the next election. But obviously she would be far too right-wing for the cult.I'm in a union. I want to improve the lives of other people less fortunate than me. Call me a swivel eyed loon but I want a labour party that is a genuine alternative. I also want Netflix and a nice car. The SNP are not left wing enough for me, and I don't think would maintain a majority in an independent Scotland - without backing up some of their left wing progressive rhetoric. They're fortunate (in a way) that they don't have to say they moment and yet keep the support of vast swathes of left of centre voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, sophia said: Is there a specific reason you found it necessary to use the word "male"? Because that’s what the story says he did. Did I get that wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Because that’s what the story says he did. Did I get that wrong? Do you think it's relevant? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 You can go back just six pages in this thread to find posts - correctly, tbf - stating that Labour’s Brexit policy is easy to understand and has been consistently laid out for months. Shame they’ve now abandoned it and starting infighting the second the election part finally become a realistic possibility. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, pandarilla said: I'm in a union. I want to improve the lives of other people less fortunate than me. Call me a swivel eyed loon but I want a labour party that is a genuine alternative. I also want Netflix and a nice car. The SNP are not left wing enough for me, and I don't think would maintain a majority in an independent Scotland - without backing up some of their left wing progressive rhetoric. They're fortunate (in a way) that they don't have to say they moment and yet keep the support of vast swathes of left of centre voters. I most definitely would not call you a 'swivel eyed loon'. I respect he way you feel politically. Facts suggest though that not enough people in the country feel the same way as you. Like it or not, but Labour's most 'succesful' period was under the leadership of Tony Blair. Aside from that period, Labour have formed a majority administration in a massive 13 years out of the last 119 since their formation......even in the days when the working class were truly 'working class', Labour rarely had electoral success. So I ask you, what use is a 'genuine alternative', when it isn't actually an alternative at all ? Edited October 28, 2019 by Bob Mahelp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Perhaps but then that's a social democrat losing to a neoliberal as opposed to a neoliberal losing to a neoliberal. Common issue being that Labour are shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, Londonwell said: Common issue being that Labour are shite. Absolutely agree with this, but the pushed narrative that it's because Corbyn is Stalin and Labour are taking the UK to 1920s Russia is so, so bad. He's just fucking awful at his job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, JamieThomas said: Absolutely agree with this, but the pushed narrative that it's because Corbyn is Stalin and Labour are taking the UK to 1920s Russia is so, so bad. He's just fucking awful at his job. Couldn't agree more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, JamieThomas said: Absolutely agree with this, but the pushed narrative that it's because Corbyn is Stalin and Labour are taking the UK to 1920s Russia is so, so bad. He's just fucking awful at his job. What he's lacking is a bit more steel to sort out his PLP, ironically, and then to be proactive in parliament and the media instead of being continually petulant and defensive. His part of Labour have some great ideas that I think would go down well with enough parts of the population to win an election, if sold properly. In the modern world inspiring the converted in social clubs around the country doesn't cut it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, welshbairn said: What he's lacking is a bit more steel to sort out his PLP, ironically, and then to be proactive in parliament and the media instead of being continually petulant and defensive. His part of Labour have some great ideas that I think would go down well with enough parts of the population to win an election, if sold properly. In the modern world inspiring the converted in social clubs around the country doesn't cut it. Definitely. 90% of the Labour manifesto is sensible, electable policy by the vast majority of the UK. HOWEVER, he's fucking hopeless at pushing it and fucking hopeless at pushing back against patent nonsense like I highlighted earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Two years ago the tactics to undermine Corbyn (Labour Party splits, anti-Semitism, Marxism, ‘magic money tree’) all failed. This time around his total lack of competence, that has been evident for all to see, will be his undoing. The best we can hope for is a Tory minority government; I think we’ll be lucky to get that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, JamieThomas said: Definitely. 90% of the Labour manifesto is sensible, electable policy by the vast majority of the UK. HOWEVER, he's fucking hopeless at pushing it and fucking hopeless at pushing back against patent nonsense like I highlighted earlier. Unfortunately all his PLP can do is bitch and undermine him and the project in the hope that some beige Blairite will take Labour back to the philosophy that destroyed their link with their natural constituency. I honestly think they'd rather Johnson stayed in power than Corbyn and McDonnell won an election. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Corbyn just doesn't have the ruthlessness to be a leader. A lot of that is down to the reality that he has spent years being an oppositionalist and doesn't know how to fight political battles any other way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Corbyn just doesn't have the ruthlessness to be a leader. A lot of that is down to the reality that he has spent years being an oppositionalist and doesn't know how to fight political battles any other way. He doesn't seem to know how to fight full stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Corbyn just doesn't have the ruthlessness to be a leader. A lot of that is down to the reality that he has spent years being an oppositionalist and doesn't know how to fight political battles any other way. He doesn't seem to know how to fight full stop.I think you're both underestimating him. If the election is a disaster them fair enough, he'll be replaced. But the last one was a surprise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Two years ago the tactics to undermine Corbyn (Labour Party splits, anti-Semitism, Marxism, ‘magic money tree’) all failed. This time around his total lack of competence, that has been evident for all to see, will be his undoing. The best we can hope for is a Tory minority government; I think we’ll be lucky to get that. Which party would support that now that the DUP have abandoned them? LibDems? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: Two years ago the tactics to undermine Corbyn (Labour Party splits, anti-Semitism, Marxism, ‘magic money tree’) all failed. This time around his total lack of competence, that has been evident for all to see, will be his undoing. The best we can hope for is a Tory minority government; I think we’ll be lucky to get that. Which party would support that now that the DUP have abandoned them? LibDems? The LibDems would be crazy to support them. It would be political and electoral suicide if they did. They have only got away with it this time because of their stance on Brexit; they wouldn’t get away with it again. If the Tories ended up as the largest party but without a majority they would be obliged to form a minority government, unless Labour, the SNP and some smaller parties collectively outnumbered them. I don’t think that will happen. The minority Tory government would try, and fail, to get agreement on Brexit then there might be a reluctant majority for some sort of referendum rather than a further GE. Sadly I think it will be a majority Tory government. I really hope I’m wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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