What is the point of labour ?

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Labour getting excited over having a wee shot at running things cause the Tories doners have gorged themselves on the economy until there is nothing left.

Bless. 

[carpetmonster]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

Surely at the very minimum they’d need to rebrand as they couldn’t be the Conservative and Unionist party anymore if they want to be taken seriously and not some fringe group in tears about not being British anymore 

Remember Turdo tried that in Scotland and it went down so well with the rank and file they elected a gay woman instead. 

[sparky88]

18 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

 

Scotland has rejected Tory values for half a century and that gives me hope that whatever emerges will be more progressive and accountable, careerists not withstanding.

Accountable, certainly. Progressive, probably not.

Devolution has given us a parliament that essentially decides how to spend money and doesn't need to think too much about how to raise it. This has meant Scotland has elected left leaning governments since devolution. 

As soon as control over benefits/ pensions/ VAT are decided at Holyrood I suspect Scotland might just decide to vote for right leaning parties.

 

 

[Granny Danger]

55 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

Accountable, certainly. Progressive, probably not.

Devolution has given us a parliament that essentially decides how to spend money and doesn't need to think too much about how to raise it. This has meant Scotland has elected left leaning governments since devolution. 

As soon as control over benefits/ pensions/ VAT are decided at Holyrood I suspect Scotland might just decide to vote for right leaning parties.

 

 

Based on what?

[Brother Blades]

42 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Based on what?

Have you not seen how well the Tories are doing in the polls? Tsk

[DA Baracus]

I think that, much like the SNP, there's a significant number of voters in Scotland who vote Tory as a means to an end regarding the independence issue. They are the 'No' party. Labour have tried to get in on that by shrieking and tearfully moaning about the big bad SNP at every opportunity, but most No voters don't see them as a viable option in opposing democracy and being the voice of the 'No' movement should a referendum happen.

[Thane of Cawdor]

From my perspective, and that of a fair few posters living in England, the point of Labour is to escape the worst excesses of the demented fuckers currently in power.  We don't have the option of a vote for the SNP that many would clearly prefer. So, until a Labour Government is returned, we are all collectively chained to a madman (or madwoman).  Being chained to a Starmer Government would still involve shackles and restraints - but without the psychotic episodes.

Marina Hyde (below) uses an interesting analogy for a future Labour election strategy; it doesn't have to be enterprising and bold - it just has to look and act like an improvement on the Tories.

"For instance, I do feel that both Theresa May’s risk-adverse approach to her calamitous 2017 general election campaign is best understood when you think that José Mourinho once advanced to the Champions League final after a game in which his side had had only 19% possession. The football writer Diego Torres once codified Mourinho’s style, concluding: “Whoever has the ball has fear. Whoever does not have it is thereby stronger.” (I fear this could also describe what I’ll call Starmerball.)"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/01/marina-hyde-on-six-years-of-political-chaos-brexit-boris-trump-truss

 

[Dunning1874]

I see the much heralded "public energy company" is not actually going to be involved in either supply or generation or energy. It's basically just a fund to hand subsidies to whichever private projects they think are worth investing in

Edited October 2, 2022 by Dunning1874

[Clown Job]

I see the new Labour line seems to be that then winning a UK GE would be disastrous for the SNP and Scottish independence 

Without explaining why exactly 

They’ve still not gotten over Scottish voters giving them the boot at a Scottish and UK level 

[DA Baracus]

1 minute ago, Clown Job said:

I see the new Labour line seems to be that then winning a UK GE would be disastrous for the SNP and Scottish independence 

Without explaining why exactly 

They’ve still not gotten over Scottish voters giving them the boot at a Scottish and UK level 

The entitlement of them is mental. They're still being pissy wee babies that the Scottish people had the gall to not vote for them, despite them constantly slagging off the Scottish people and behaving in a scumbag way.

Bunch of c***s.

[doulikefish]

House of Lords reform or whatever they have announced this time is a 2nd term thing already according to reports Along with the "we might" introduce Pr but we talked about it at Liverpool already being rolled back Shower of charlatans 

[sparky88]

On 01/10/2022 at 07:56, Granny Danger said:

Based on what?

Its a hunch which I explained in my post. The 'i'm voting SNP til I get my preferred constiitutional outcome' lads can have pretty right wing views that might make the average English Tory blush- think John Mason.

Tories + right leaning brexit voting SNP supporters is quite a substantial proportion of the voting public. Maybe less than half but that could change dependent on circumstances.

Do you know any SNP supporters that voted Leave? 

Edited October 2, 2022 by sparky88

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Its a hunch which I explained in my post. The 'i'm voting SNP til I get my preferred constiitutional outcome' lads can have pretty right wing views that might make the average English Tory blush- think John Mason.
Tories + right leaning brexit voting SNP supporters is quite a substantial proportion of the voting public. Maybe less than half but that could change dependent on circumstances.
Do you know any SNP supporters that voted Leave? 

He lives in Lanzarote.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

He lives in Lanzarote.

Your point being?

[jakedee]

Its a hunch which I explained in my post. The 'i'm voting SNP til I get my preferred constiitutional outcome' lads can have pretty right wing views that might make the average English Tory blush- think John Mason.
Tories + right leaning brexit voting SNP supporters is quite a substantial proportion of the voting public. Maybe less than half but that could change dependent on circumstances.
Do you know any SNP supporters that voted Leave? 

The pro brexit vote in Scotland was 36% now according to polls would be less. I think your "substantial proportion" may be less than you make out.

[Guest Jedi]

6 hours ago, sparky88 said:

Do you know any SNP supporters that voted Leave? 

The figure posted at the time was 36% of SNP supporters who voted Leave...which gives them nearly a 60-40 in favour of Remain (among supporters)...9Labour was roughly the same sort of breakdown). 

Clearly not a majority but a significant proportion of supporters nonetheless.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14950013.36-snp-labour-supporters-backed-brexit-finds-survey/

Edited October 2, 2022 by Jedi

[jakedee]

The figure posted at the time was 36% of SNP supporters who voted Leave...which gives them nearly a 60-40 in favour of Remain (among supporters)...9Labour was roughly the same sort of breakdown). 
Clearly not a majority but a significant proportion of supporters nonetheless.
 
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14950013.36-snp-labour-supporters-backed-brexit-finds-survey/

That would make (giving the total leave vote was 36%) other party voters having the same % leave vote ie conservative, green and Libdem also at 36% leave.
These numbers don't add up.

[Donathan]

22 hours ago, Clown Job said:

I see the new Labour line seems to be that then winning a UK GE would be disastrous for the SNP and Scottish independence 

Without explaining why exactly 

They’ve still not gotten over Scottish voters giving them the boot at a Scottish and UK level 

I think the idea is that the best chance of an independence referendum being sanctioned by WM is in a hung Parliament scenario where Keir Starmer agrees to allow the referendum to proceed in return for the SNP voting him in to number 10.

 

If Labour win the stomping majority that the polls currently point towards then no such concession will be necessary from him and thus the issue is dead in the water for another five years again. 

[scottsdad]

The recent polls in a way are not good news for Labour. The polls will tighten between now and the election. And then any cut on their lead will be interpreted as pro-Tory momentum. The lefties in Labour who still think Corbyn jizzes glitter will be talking about Labour "blowing" a lead of 33%.

That one-off poll taken in the middle of a real crisis has really overblown the Labour position. In reality I reckon they are about 15 points ahead. 

[Granny Danger]

26 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

The recent polls in a way are not good news for Labour. The polls will tighten between now and the election. And then any cut on their lead will be interpreted as pro-Tory momentum. The lefties in Labour who still think Corbyn jizzes glitter will be talking about Labour "blowing" a lead of 33%.

That one-off poll taken in the middle of a real crisis has really overblown the Labour position. In reality I reckon they are about 15 points ahead. 

It’s in Scotland interest that Labour do not go into the GE with an insurmountable lead.