What is the point of labour ?

[BawWatchin]

Discussion with tories:
"Strong and stable"

"Brexit means brexit"

"No deal is better than a bad deal"

Discussion with Labourites:

"Working mans party"

"We'll make rich people pay tax this time, honest"

"Only Scotland can prevent a tory government"

Discussion with Libdems:
"Boldly going forward 'cause we can't find reverse"

 

Well i'm glad we had this highly intellectual discussion. Still voting SNP though m9s.

[NotThePars]

Discussion with tories:
"Strong and stable"
"Brexit means brexit"
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
Discussion with Labourites:
"Working mans party"
"We'll make rich people pay tax this time, honest"
"Only Scotland can prevent a tory government"
Discussion with Libdems:
"Boldly going forward 'cause we can't find reverse"
 
Well i'm glad we had this highly intellectual discussion. Still voting SNP though m9s.

What’s your reasons for voting SNP, out of interest?

[BawWatchin]

9 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

What’s your reasons for voting SNP, out of interest?

Because there's only 3 parties in Scotland that could ever possibly win an election in Scotland. If I don't vote for the SNP, it leaves the other 2 options. Why would I wish to vote for a party that repeatedly failed Scotland in Government, or the other party that openly and unashamedly hates this country?

I'm no SNP fanboy, they do make mistakes. But the only possible alternatives are down right rotten. I believe everybody who votes for these parties know full well that they're rotten and not in Scotlands best interests, but they back them blindly on a single issue like brainwashed soldiers following their command.

[John Lambies Doos]

What’s your reasons for voting SNP, out of interest?

Only party that truly has Scotlands interests at heart. Question not to me, but there's the answer

[Benjamin_Nevis]

My reason is simply that they're the only party genuinely interested in treating the poorest in society like human beings. The Tories gleefully cut disability benefits then deny it as "fake news" and introduced the disastrous Universal Credit. Labour sat on their hands whilst the Tory welfare reform bills went through. Labour also brought in ESA and the use of arseholes like ATOS to carry out assessments.

The SNP seem genuinely interested in reforming this shite for the better. It also doesn't inspire much confidence when the branch offices leader is too stupid to distinguish reserved and devolved matters.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

What’s your reasons for voting SNP, out of interest?

Only party that truly has Scotlands interests at heart. Question not to me, but there's the answer

That's quite an amorphous concept though. You could announce a purge tomorrow and claim it's in "Scotland's interests". You or I have nothing in common with large swathes of this country and actively have competing interests.

 

53 minutes ago, jupe1407 said:

My reason is simply that they're the only party genuinely interested in treating the poorest in society like human beings. The Tories gleefully cut disability benefits then deny it as "fake news" and introduced the disastrous Universal Credit. Labour sat on their hands whilst the Tory welfare reform bills went through. Labour also brought in ESA and the use of arseholes like ATOS to carry out assessments.

The SNP seem genuinely interested in reforming this shite for the better. It also doesn't inspire much confidence when the branch offices leader is too stupid to distinguish reserved and devolved matters.

A completely failed opportunity tbh. The 2017 election showed that the SNP are lacking in purpose atm and there was a real opportunity to drive at them from the left and force them out their stupor to start articulating a radical vision for the next referendum. I'd hope the Greens would do it but I can understand there's a sense of solidarity between the pro-independence parties. Colkitto is hopefully right and that they'll run a better campaign that utilises people like Mhairi Black who have a lot of good ideas but are currently marginalised. They'll need to set out a positive vision for the next referendum as I doubt a negative campaign, even one in the shadow of something as monstrously shite as a Tory Hard Brexit, will be enough. 

 

1 hour ago, BawWatchin said:

Because there's only 3 parties in Scotland that could ever possibly win an election in Scotland. If I don't vote for the SNP, it leaves the other 2 options. Why would I wish to vote for a party that repeatedly failed Scotland in Government, or the other party that openly and unashamedly hates this country?

I'm no SNP fanboy, they do make mistakes. But the only possible alternatives are down right rotten. I believe everybody who votes for these parties know full well that they're rotten and not in Scotlands best interests, but they back them blindly on a single issue like brainwashed soldiers following their command.

 

There's a clear argument that people vote SNP for a single issue as well. There's plenty of "leave it till after independence, lads" vocal supporters who don't want to have the discussions about what kind of society we should be building after independence. I don't really blame anyone who votes for any of the left parties atm because the future is so uncertain and it's a party's responsibility to get people to vote for them.

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, NotThePars said:

There's a clear argument that people vote SNP for a single issue as well. There's plenty of "leave it till after independence, lads" vocal supporters who don't want to have the discussions about what kind of society we should be building after independence. I don't really blame anyone who votes for any of the left parties atm because the future is so uncertain and it's a party's responsibility to get people to vote for them.

Perhaps. But to be honest, I couldn't really care less what other peoples reasons are for voting for whatever other party. I only need to know what my own reasons are.

As for the type of society we build, one thing is for certain. It will be our choice, not the direction we're being forced to accept under the regime of a UK Government rejected by the Scottish electorate.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

[Detournement]

15 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

That's quite an amorphous concept though. You could announce a purge tomorrow and claim it's in "Scotland's interests". You or I have nothing in common with large swathes of this country and actively have competing interests.

 

SNPers seem incapable of understanding this point.

 

[BawWatchin]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

SNPers seem incapable of understanding this point.

 

The point that claiming something that clearly wouldn't be in Scotlands best interests is in fact in Scotlands best interests?
 

The tories have been doing that for decades.

[welshbairn]

30 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Curious about which troll you're referring to?

[Detournement]

21 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

The point that claiming something that clearly wouldn't be in Scotlands best interests is in fact in Scotlands best interests?
 

The tories have been doing that for decades.

No. I mean recognising that there are conflicting class interests in Scotland.

A single mother on benefits in Salcoats doesn't have the same interests as a banker from Morningside.

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

No. I mean recognising that there are conflicting class interests in Scotland.

A single mother on benefits in Salcoats doesn't have the same interests as a banker from Morningside.

Well obviously not. But it stands to reason that there is a heck of a lot more single mothers in Scotland than there are hot shot bankers. So who do you believe we should be prioritizing?

[Detournement]

I want a government that prioritises ending exploitation and uses the wealth of the nation to guarantee everyone a dignified standard of living with access to 21st century standard housing, health care, social care and education. However that will require radical policy implementation and redistribution which  no doubt a large proportion of the Scottish electorate would oppose.

Reading the Growth Commission report or listening to Blackford, Swinney, Mason, Wishart, Ewing etc it's hard to see the SNP as being wholly committed to a more equitable future.

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

I want a government that prioritises ending exploitation and uses the wealth of the nation to guarantee everyone a dignified standard of living with access to 21st century standard housing, health care, social care and education. However that will require radical policy implementation and redistribution which  no doubt a large proportion of the Scottish electorate would oppose.

Reading the Growth Commission report or listening to Blackford, Swinney, Mason, Wishart, Ewing etc it's hard to see the SNP as being wholly committed to a more equitable future.

It doesn't matter. Because only through independence from the UK could we ever hope to bring in a government who would be committed to these level of changes.

It will never happen as part of the UK, so why cling on to something that is clearly finished anyway?

[Ira Gaines]

22 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Curious about which troll you're referring to?

I'd have it as a blanket statement tbh

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, BawWatchin said:

It doesn't matter. Because only through independence from the UK could we ever hope to bring in a government who would be committed to these level of changes.

It will never happen as part of the UK, so why cling on to something that is clearly finished anyway?

I don't see English people as inherently unable to vote for a better society so we will have to disagree on that.

[BawWatchin]

Just now, Detournement said:

I don't see English people as inherently unable to vote for a better society so we will have to disagree on that.

You're right, they're not unable to. But they just wont anyway. If you're honestly delusional enough to believe that there's going to be some kind of sudden u-turn at some point in the way English people vote, then have fun waiting. Some of us are sick of waiting.

[Detournement]

In that case it's down to what comes first, a general election or Indyref2.

[BawWatchin]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

In that case it's down to what comes first, a general election or Indyref2.

It doesn't really matter. Because general elections have no meaning in Scotland. We don't influence the outcome of general elections. Our votes are as good as NULL/VOID. The only way our votes would actually count, is if we started voting the same way as England, taking choice and democracy completely out of the equation.

Edited October 2, 2018 by BawWatchin