What is the point of labour ?

[Granny Danger]

England and Wales need a credible left-of-centre alternative to Labour.  I don’t see them getting it any time soon but equally there will be a point where the trade union movement decides that there is no further justification in funding a Tory Lite alternative.

 

[oneteaminglasgow]

2 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Starmer has already openly committed to maintaining the anti-protest bill and the power to overrule court verdicts. Putting everything else to the side, those things alone should see him nowhere near office. The fact millions of people are wetting themselves at the prospects of "getting the tories out", only to then be replaced with this guy, shows just how easily led the general public are. They are Turkeys ecstatically chirping away on their way to the slaughter house.

It’s politics for people who treat supporting Labour like supporting Arsenal. It doesn’t matter what they do, as long as your team wins.

p***ks, basically. 

[tamthebam]

5 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

It’s a while to the next GE, plenty of time for Starmer to advocate for capital punishment.

Tongue in cheek I know, GD, but the only European country that has capital punishment is Luka's Belarus.

Even Putin's Russia has (officially) abolished it (thanks to drunken Boris)

[O'Kelly Isley III]

14 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Starmer has already openly committed to maintaining the anti-protest bill and the power to overrule court verdicts. Putting everything else to the side, those things alone should see him nowhere near office. The fact millions of people are wetting themselves at the prospects of "getting the tories out", only to then be replaced with this guy, shows just how easily led the general public are. They are Turkeys ecstatically chirping away on their way to the slaughter house.

There is no surprise here, a growing number of the electorate is becoming increasingly disengaged from and increasingly disillusioned with politics, all of which suits the parties and their backers.  As for 'easily led', well a lot of the population is basically thick.  And many are racist.

We have slowly but steadily moved towards the American model of a society which is disfunctional for all but the elite.  The real surprise for me is the myopia of the 'comfortable' UK middle class who are failing to realise that their prospects, and those of their children and grandchildren, are diminishing with each passing year.

As a Labour voter for a good part of my life I couldn't bring myself to vote for the party. And I'm horrified at the lurch to the right of both them and a large percentage of the UK population, especially England - see above.

[Granny Danger]

12 hours ago, tamthebam said:

Tongue in cheek I know, GD, but the only European country that has capital punishment is Luka's Belarus.

Even Putin's Russia has (officially) abolished it (thanks to drunken Boris)

The UK can be a trailblazer for its reintroduction!

[KirkieRR]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

The UK can be a trailblazer for its reintroduction!

Don't give a governing party with the pitiless likes of UnPriti Patel, Cruella Braverman and Jacob Rees-Moggo any encouragement, even in jest.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Don't give a governing party with the pitiless likes of UnPriti Patel, Cruella Braverman and Jacob Rees-Moggo any encouragement, even in jest.

You can guarantee that Starmer would back the death penalty if reintroducing it was in the Tory manifesto.

[MarkoRaj]

It's hard not to feel apathetic when no party of any colour in any part of the UK is offering change whatsoever.

Labour under Starmer are just the living embodiment of this tweet

[ScotiaNostra]

If I thought the SNP could gain independence Id consider voting for them again, at moment I dont think they will any time soon.

To vote based on who would make things better quicker I'll be honest I am considering Labour in both UK and Scottish elections. No matter how bland Starmer is its going to be better than the tories and a change in Scottish Government might give the SNP the boot up the arse it needs and they come back a better party.

The Scotland United idea is the only thing that sounds interesting on the indy side of things and something that could bring real change but it seems dead in the water

[KirkieRR]

12 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

If I thought the SNP could gain independence Id consider voting for them again, at moment I dont think they will any time soon.

To vote based on who would make things better quicker I'll be honest I am considering Labour in both UK and Scottish elections. No matter how bland Starmer is its going to be better than the tories and a change in Scottish Government might give the SNP the boot up the arse it needs and they come back a better party.

The Scotland United idea is the only thing that sounds interesting on the indy side of things and something that could bring real change but it seems dead in the water

I share your concerns but not your solution. A Labour revival in Scotland would de interpreted by them as a return to the prior status quo

The SNP are poor, ALBA are bonkers, but independence is the only way.

[ScotiaNostra]

2 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

I share your concerns but not your solution. A Labour revival in Scotland would de interpreted by them as a return to the prior status quo

The SNP are poor, ALBA are bonkers, but independence is the only way.

I agree independence is the best way but I also want things better quickly

[StellarHibee]

33 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I agree independence is the best way but I also want things better quickly

Make things better quickly by voting in the party promising more of the same?

Also, not voting SNP because these other parties worked together to pervert the court system is a huge LOL.

Edited July 24, 2023 by StellarHibee

[MazzyStar]

21 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

England and Wales need a credible left-of-centre alternative to Labour.  I don’t see them getting it any time soon but equally there will be a point where the trade union movement decides that there is no further justification in funding a Tory Lite alternative.

 

What about Scotland? 

[dirty dingus]

I'm still hopeful someone will stand up in the SNP and say f**k this for a game of soldiers, get the gloves off and start pushing for Independence by calling all them comfy MPs home from Westminster like Sinn Fein or basically disrupting parliament as a collective every time an untruth gets uttered . Also have a strategy to call out the media over every lie. Keith Brown was meant to do it but seemed to run out of steam after about 2 tweets. 

[ScotiaNostra]

13 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

Make things better quickly by voting in the party promising more of the same?

Also, not voting SNP because these other parties worked together to pervert the court system is a huge LOL.

Its my opinion that it wont be more of the same if Labour get in, it will get better for the avg person, thats why I am considering it

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, ScotiaNostra said:

If I thought the SNP could gain independence Id consider voting for them again, at moment I dont think they will any time soon.

To vote based on who would make things better quicker I'll be honest I am considering Labour in both UK and Scottish elections. No matter how bland Starmer is its going to be better than the tories and a change in Scottish Government might give the SNP the boot up the arse it needs and they come back a better party.

The Scotland United idea is the only thing that sounds interesting on the indy side of things and something that could bring real change but it seems dead in the water

There is absolutely no guarantee it will be better under Labour than the Tories, that's the lie Starmer and Co want people to buy into.  The SNP is currently floundering, no doubt of that, but voting Labour and expecting tangible change is a dangerously lazy option and naive in the extreme, it will be akin to blanketing Scotland in cement for decades to come.

I'm 67 and I well recall Scotland returning hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

[ScotiaNostra]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There is absolutely no guarantee it will be better under Labour than the Tories, that's the lie Starmer and Co want people to buy into.  The SNP is currently floundering, no doubt of that, but voting Labour and expecting tangible change is a dangerously lazy option and naive in the extreme, it will be akin to blanketing Scotland in cement for decades to come.

I'm 67 and I well recall Scotland returning hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

I well remember Labour sitting on their arses taking everything for granted in Scotland especially, which is where I see the SNP now. I honestly just dont see the SNP delivering independence and I feel their governance over last while has been poor. I respect your view and reply though 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by ScotiaNostra

[StellarHibee]

24 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

Its my opinion that it wont be more of the same if Labour get in, it will get better for the avg person, thats why I am considering it

Fair enough. Not sure what you're basing that opinion on though.

[StellarHibee]

7 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I well remember Labour sitting on their arses taking everything for granted in Scotland especially, which is where I see the SNP now. I honestly just dont see the SNP delivering independence and I feel their governance over last while has been poor. I respect your view and reply though 

How can they deliver it? Both the tories and that "other" party that you're considering voting for, colluded together to strip Scotland of that option. Why would you now want to vote for that party?

[sophia]

8 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

You may be correct to have GF nosing in front but my word, it was a crowded field back in the day.

I'm sorry @ScotiaNostra I'm not sure that I follow you. You may well be correct and things may get better for a wee while but then what?

Thing is SKS is just following the same strategy as Nicola has in being determined to scare no horses. It didn't get her very far and I'd imagine we'll be saying the same whenever the next labour leadership election is precipitated.