What is the point of labour ?

[Fullerene]

3 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Just a born loser.  Even when he wins the GE next year, it won't be because of what he's done, it'll because of what the, so called, opposition haven't.

Basically Labour will win it by default.

Actually he is parked himself just to the left of the Tories (almost undetectably left).  That makes it difficult for the Tories to attack him and easier to portray Labour as a government-in-waiting.

Hopefully they will be more progressive once elected but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Highlandmagar]

9 hours ago, CambieBud said:

Starmer is the most morally bankrupt politician I have seen in my lifetime. A man with no values whatsoever.  

Behave. While I have no time for him, there is a long line of politicians well ahead of him in the morally bankrupt stakes.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

Hopefully they will be more progressive once elected but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Nor would I, and I've no intention of experimenting with my vote.

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Aye it works for both.  And generally how it works everywhere when there's only 2 serious parties in a country.  England obviously in this case.

I feel sorry for people in England whose politics are progressive.  They are totally disenfranchised.

[RuMoore]

10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I feel sorry for people in England whose politics are progressive.  They are totally disenfranchised.

^

Voted for Brexit. 

[Highlandmagar]

12 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I feel sorry for people in England whose politics are progressive.  They are totally disenfranchised.

You are the kind of voter who actually instigated this. Voting for Brexit caused the extreme right wing to take control of the Tories, hence tge government that has put us in this mess and ultimately caused Labour to be dragged to the right too. 

Disenfranchisement extends to Scotland because the Unionist party oppose a referendum for Scotland. 

For the likes of you too say people are disenfranchised is breathtakingly arrogant as you are one of the reasons for it.

[BB_Bino]

1 hour ago, Highlandmagar said:

You are the kind of voter who actually instigated this. Voting for Brexit caused the extreme right wing to take control of the Tories, hence tge government that has put us in this mess and ultimately caused Labour to be dragged to the right too. 

Disenfranchisement extends to Scotland because the Unionist party oppose a referendum for Scotland. 

For the likes of you too say people are disenfranchised is breathtakingly arrogant as you are one of the reasons for it.

Although I totally agree with this statement, I don't agree with your Labour line, only because it was the right wing battle within that party that pulled them to the right, I don't think it was a consequence of the Tories personally.

[Jedi2]

For morally bankrupt think you would have to look at most Tory politicians first.

[lichtgilphead]

48 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

For morally bankrupt think you would have to look at most Tory politicians first.

[Highlandmagar]

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

For morally bankrupt think you would have to look at most Tory politicians first.

True. But Starmer is a Tory waiting in line.

[HTG]

10 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

True. But Starmer is a Tory waiting in line.

Starmer's only shining light is that he's less right wing than the likes of Braverman, Sunak, Truss, Patel etc. In that context, Labour are electable on a UK level (there being no choice). But I'd put Starmer to the right of some of Thatcher's cabinet - the likes of Ken Clark or Geoffrey Howe. That's an absolute indictment on the Labour party and the wider state of the UK. Exactly why Scotland needs to get out - I don't think even Labour supporters in Scotland are close to being aligned to where Starmer is going (apart from absolute arseholes like Foulkes and Baillie). They're just hanging on in the hope he'll be slightly more socially democratic than the pish he's currently coming away with once the chips are down in office. They'll be disappointed I fear.

[PossilYM]

On 01/11/2023 at 10:27, KirkieRR said:

I don't think it does, for I could name another dozen, but by all means FUME away.

Starmer is a boring Blairite, a by-numbers phone-it-in Labour drone, who is desperate to win an election. That's all.

Starmer is Pabloist.

[picklish]

He's a Tory. He's a centrist. He's an entryist. He's the establishment choice. He's all things to all men. He's a chameleon. He's the acceptable face of the left to middle England. He's a narc. He's a white Bill Clinton. He's an international man of mystery. He's a little Englander.

I've occasionally thought that more devious and subversive techniques are required on the left in England to contend with Murdoch et al, but if anyone actually used them I wouldn't know how to recognise it. 

So while I think it's likely that he'll be a more plodding Cameron/Blair, with less arrogance and less vision, there remains a sliver of hope that his administration will introduce a few policies that will make life slightly less terrible than it currently is for people who are worse off than me.

Let me write the battle bus slogan

 

 

 

[Dunning1874]

 

"Take back our streets" is it. Nothing fashy about this sloganeering.

[Granny Danger]

Starmer is going to be the next PM because Labour is perceived to be not as bad as the Tories.

In the age of corporate owned media, corporate directed social media and a society where people have far more interest in big brother contestants/bake off winners/I’m a celebrity participants than social causes then maybe representative democracy has outlived its utility.

[KirkieRR]

He'll also be the PM who most looks like Peter Butterworth.

[SandyCromarty]

Labour is riddled within with splinter groups and within a year of Government they will bring Starmer down and he knows it.

[Granny Danger]

5 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Labour is riddled within with splinter groups and within a year of Government they will bring Starmer down and he knows it.

Possibly the worst take I’ve read on here for a long time.

[SandyCromarty]

7 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Possibly the worst take I’ve read on here for a long time.

Jeremy Corbyn, Dianne Abbot, McDonnel etc etc etc and the rest of the hard left will see Starmer off.

[Granny Danger]

44 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Jeremy Corbyn, Dianne Abbot, McDonnel etc etc etc and the rest of the hard left will see Starmer off.

If only…

Jeremy Corbyn is no longer a Labour MP.

Starmer has done everything in his power to marginalise the fairly small number of existing Labour MPs on the ‘left’.

There will be a huge number of new Labour MPs elected at the next GE, few if any will be on the left because Starmer and Labour’s National Executive have made sure that the selection processes have been fixed that way.

After the next GE ‘left’ Labour MPs will be so few in number and influence their only ‘power’ will be to embarrass Starmer on issues but the size of the Labour majority will be such that it won’t really matter.

 

As I said, possibly the worst take in a long time.