DrewDon Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 I am a socialist, but maybe there is a sprinkling of nationalism in there. If I were to coin a label for this, maybe... National Socialist? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) I put 'Left' & 'Centrist' in the poll, as I'm a bit uncomfortable with what Liberal is associated with in recent years (particularly through Covid), although I am small L liberal by any measure. If I could have picked more than one I might have added libertarian too. By centrist I just mean I'm pretty open-minded to other views and am happy to read or listen to certain people on the right as well as the left. The defining principles of left & right have definitely changed over my lifetime. The old left was against war, distrustful of authority, and for free speech. Sadly for my lefty brethren nowadays, the modern Liberal (certainly the modern Liberal government) is often militaristic, pro-censorship and holds the intelligence services on high as a beacon of truth & guidance. Feeling a bit politically homeless these days tbh. Edited July 8 by Zetterlund 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Is Nigel Farage a fascist ? No. He is too badly dressed. Is the Conservative Party no longer Conservative ? They are the same as ever. Is Jeremy Corbyn far left ? No Are Lenin and Mussolini two sides of the same coin ? No Are you a beige centrist ? No Are you a woke Marxist Globalist ? No Who on the forum will be operating the guillotine when the time comes ? Shandon Pierpar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) Is Nigel Farage a fascist? No. He opportunistically utilises ethnic nationalism to further Thatcherite goals. Is the Conservative Party no longer Conservative? That can be reasonably argued. The economics they've pursued since the 1980s have been extremely damaging to the family unit. Financial stress contributes to relationship struggles and break up. Both parents needing to work long hours to afford housing, due to stagnant wages and squeezing housing to maximise value for landlords, reduces the time parents have to care for their children. Men not having access to secure employment has made fulfilling the (traditional conservative) patriarchal role within the family much harder. Is Jeremy Corbyn far left? I'm less squeamish about political labels than some folk. If Corbyn is to be described as far left in relation to a different position on the left-right axis then that can be fine. Its normally obvious whether someone is being good faith or bad faith with how they're using labels and its that intent more than the labels themselves that is more important. I think the question is probably more asking what we think Corbyn's views are, though. He talked about democracy in the workplace so he's definitely socialist ("workers own the means of production"). His personal ideal was probably less relevant than what he promised to implement in government - which was social democracy, pockets of socialism within a capitalist framework. Are Lenin and Mussolini two sides of the same coin? Spoiler I've been reading the discussion between other commenters and I'll pick up on one aspect, kill counts. The Wikipedia page for the Bolshevik government's Red Terror gives an upper estimate of 600k. The source is a book written by Norman Lowe, who is a history teacher at a college in Lancashire, not an academic. The quote given is actually Norman Lowe claiming other sources have suggested the 600k number, not him. So whoever edited the wikipedia page hasn't even cited a source. They've just cited a teacher in Lancashire's obscure book where that teacher claims someone else made these estimates but doesn't tell us who. Maybe a big boy said it then ran away. Leninism - the theory Lenin wrote - is more interesting than Lenin himself. The first thing to establish, as I've read some comments where this seems to be getting confused, is that marxism and leninism are not the same thing. Marxism is a frame of analysis. Marx was an economist, his stuff was descriptive not prescriptive. If you've ever used the phrase "working class" then you've done yourself a wee marxism there as that idea came from him. Leninism was Vladimir Lenin deriving a set of prescriptions from Marx's ideas, hence its sometimes called marxism-leninism. Many contemporary marxists disagreed with what Lenin came up. Examples are Anton Pannekoek or most famously Rosa Luxemburg. Many marxists today also disagree with Leninism. Personally, I think Lenin made an important contribution to thinking on anti-imperialism, as mentioned in a previous comment. On Mussolini, I think he was catastrophically bald. Are you a beige centrist? No. Are you a woke marxist globalist? I support some global institutions, at least relative to the forces which oppose them. Yesterday I saw a photo of the mutilated corpse of a Gazan UN worker who'd been murdered by an Israeli missile. You have the government of USA which hates the UN. It provide the missiles which are then fired at these UN workers in Gaza. Biden recently defunded the UN's main relief effort for Gazan civilians. So I support the globalist UN against the various criminal national governments that oppose it. I support the UN in its attempts to bring food, water and medicine to the world's most forgotten people. Edited July 9 by Freedom Farter 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Is Nigel Farage a fascist ? He's not a direct fit, but as short hand, the term will do. Is the Conservative Party no longer Conservative ? It's not been about conserving things for decades. Is Jeremy Corbyn far left ? Nah, but he's terribly easily portrayed as such by those with an interest in doing so. Are Lenin and Mussolini two sides of the same coin ? Not even a wee bit. Mussolini is not the best example of anything really. Are you a beige centrist ? I probably am a bit. I'm left of there economically though. Are you a woke Marxist Globalist ? I wouldn't have thought so. Marxist analysis is useful though. Does it really matter and is it all just the irresistible forces of financial capital eventually crushing us all like the insects we are ? No, then Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Is Jeremy Corbyn far left? Would be wear this hat if he wasn't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 A shameless bumping of my own thread but... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 41 minutes ago, Cheese said: A shameless bumping of my own thread but... I wonder if the folk who said ‘leans left’ thought ‘leans’ means ‘dresses’. Or maybe (for either) they meant it literally because they saw him a bit shoogly on his shoe lifts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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