An Absolute Imposter Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Sitting here reading this with my mid-morning coffee and a certain realisation made me chuckle. In any discussion; be it the SJC, traditional grass grounds, whatever there is always a point when the 'Talbot Card' is played. In fact, we have a new game; Talbot Bingo. Shannon is today's winner. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghBlue Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 On 17/08/2024 at 08:43, Arthurlie1981 said: This is ridiculous. For someone who claims to want to be at the forefront of moving our game forward to make a statement (note how the club haven't said anything) without detailing the reason why. Why not say something along the lines of "we feel better served by the SJC". Still would have, rightly, attracted criticism but to say nothing of note is just and "absolute farce" I'm sure treasurers of other clubs will be disappointed at the potential gate losses with Gartcairn's massive travelling support (!) Should be fined or even relegated 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eadie is God Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I would like to think that the SFA will take a dim view of Gartcairn playing silly buggers. If they are going to apply for a license then I’d say that pulling out of the SCC is against the licensing criteria of signing up to be committed to the pyramid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaguereformer Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 52 minutes ago, Eadie is God said: I would like to think that the SFA will take a dim view of Gartcairn playing silly buggers. If they are going to apply for a license then I’d say that pulling out of the SCC is against the licensing criteria of signing up to be committed to the pyramid. It is not a licensing criteria though. Nothing to do with commitment to pyramid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 40 minutes ago, Eadie is God said: I would like to think that the SFA will take a dim view of Gartcairn playing silly buggers. If they are going to apply for a license then I’d say that pulling out of the SCC is against the licensing criteria of signing up to be committed to the pyramid. If Airdrie Leisure Centre is granted a licence the game is most definitely up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 9 hours ago, Shannon said: Even an 20-40 fans extra through the gate at £4-8, raffles, programme but most importantly if the home team has hospitality area etc that can be more than enough fans to help home clubs make a decent profit from a visit of a team who isn't as well supported. Thanks for the reply Shannon But I understand what is said about going through the gate. The majority of teams and i mean majority do not have a programme and its not cost effect for any team to try and get one made for a Scottish cup tie when they haven't done it before. Then your talking about raffle. Not one penny raised from the programme or the raffle goes to the away team. Also any money by fans spent at the clubhouse does not have one penny going to the away club, so you have to be realistic and honest in your appraisal of anything. This is about winnings and losing of money in the SJC, that guy who has the hatred of everything progressive started stating how his beloved junior cup pays out big prize money and that the SCC is only a loss when what I've produced is that the SJC makes a loss for approx 1/3 of the competition. Again if thinking Talbot and Pollok and a few others then yeah its worth it but the majority of clubs who not even a Aberdeenshire away day but a Northern Perthshire or Angus still lose money and if they are put out on the day then the cup that season is a total loss. 9 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: The prices you have quoted are still correct as far as I'm aware but most I've given prices to Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, there are teams further north which more travelling expenses you've quoted but the prices for coaches is huge. Your commenting on Talbot but can you stop just thinking one way, not every team is Talbot. Any team Talbot visit will bring out the home support, not teams like Maryhill, Bellshill, Lugar, Benburb, Shotts, Neilston, Ardeer etc.. if any of those teams and majority of WOSFL teams visit will bring in a crowd but nothing that makes a huge difference to the coffers., only the big guns will do like Talbot, Clydebank, Pollok etc.. every team I've listed will try and fill up the busses with paying supporters to help fund the main busses up to their games. I don't believe there is anyone against a full non league Scottish cup, (I would love it but right now it wont happen due to funding etc..) and many Northern and east teams don't want anything to do with the Junior cup, there's a reason for that! 10 hours ago, Shannon said: It's not a straight loss though as clearly Bridge of Don will have got more than enough fans through the gate v Talbot and likewise other way about so neither team loss money as such. Probably quite the opposite especially with Talbots travelling support and even Bridge of Don would have had a sizeable number of more fans at their game as will come out to see Talbot as a very recognisable name plus extra sponsorship, hospitality and exposure for the club plus may get odd fans in area coming back for run of mill league games as put up a great game v Talbot and defeated Irvine Victoria so those games may encourage even just a few locals to go down every week or even join their committee etc which is vital to keep clubs like this going. If no Junior Cup they simply don't get any of those benefits. Most teams will have everyone outside their playing and coaching staff paying towards it so it's never a straight loss but aye it's expensive if get a couple of long distance draws but I am sure Bridge of Don won't wish they never took part in Junior Cup on a football side of things as well as financial. Also this is from 2-3 years ago so may be out of date but if over 101 miles Association contributes to it too. " the following table:- Distance 0-25 miles 26-50 miles 51-75 miles 76-100 miles 101-150 miles 151-200 miles 201-250 miles 251-300 miles Guarantee £55 £95 £120 £170 £220 £270 £310 £340 Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single journey between the competing clubs. In addition those clubs incurring a 101 plus mile single journey, the Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee towards the away team’s travel costs. " 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 10 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: Well you did ask for it, so you want to know the truth about the cup you love so much, as you normally talk utter rubbish and only put information on either what you idolize and ignore or blatantly hide information due to your love affair with your Scottish Junior Cup. You open your mouth and so ill prepared, its embarrassing, you leave yourself open that even dummies can see the truth. The prize money on its own from the SJC which is the best in non league Scottish football and is excellent Last season and this season I think the prize money for the junior cup is £20,000 for winner £10,000 for runner up £5,000 for 2 losing semi finalists £2000 for 4 losing quarter finalists £500 for 8 losing Last 16 £100, for 16 losing Last 32 Now some costs, (the prices are not exact as each coach company are different and not all distances are exact same but as I've arranged busses to these destinations previously for teams as I've received discounts due to my work with bus companies previous so I know what prices they usually are. Prices listed are what a minimum they are expected to pay for the distances they are travelling to and from and that's without the club stopping off to get arrange breakfast for players n staff. Usually I'll go the minimum of £900 for Aberdeenshire but could be higher at £1000 etc... And Angus and Northern Perthshire from Glasgow is about £600 Bellshill got 3 Aberdeenshire games in the first two rounds of season 22/23 costing a minimum £900 each so they paid out £2700 and I believed they only received £480 expenses, (2 journeys) from the SJC as the SJC didn't fork out for the re arranged game that was abandoned, (informed by the Bellshill committee and they were not happy). So it was a £2220 loss They reached the quarter final and received £2000, so they are really lucky they reached the quarters or it would have been a bigger loss had they not received the £2000 prize money. But there were many teams paying out £900 for transport and not reaching far, so the cup was a total loss for them. There maybe a few teams who have special deals arranged with bus companies either knowing or a fan run company to get cheaper deals but not by much Below gives you an idea of losses Troon have had two belters in last two season, V Blairgowrie this season which probably about minimum £600 and the defeat to Dufftown last season about £900, which was a trading loss of £600 in the Scottish junior cup 23/24 p.s the travelling team get half the gate but most are not really big crowds. So the clubs will try and recuperate some money by allowing fans to pay to be on team bus for the away fixture and also arrange some sort of sponsorship. Also, I've only given you WOSFL teams when travelling away as I've not added Aberdeenshire teams travelling down to Ayrshire of Glasgow and I haven't even touched Edinburgh teams travelling to Aberdeenshire etc.. so below is only a very small sample of the major travelling most teams have to do in one or two rounds of the cup. So any team travelling to Aberdeenshire from Glasgow or Ayrshire usually have a £660 loss for each round. Any team travelling To Angus and Northern Perthshire usually have a £420 loss for each round, (shorter distance and cheaper but as its usually the full day for the driver, its still costly) SJC Season 23/24 Banchory St Ternan 0 Maybole 8 over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Bridge of Don 0 Maryhill 0 4.3 " Buchaven Hearts o Ardeer 0 4.5 " Burghead 1 Lesmahgow 3 " Frazerburgh 0 Shotts 4 " Islavale 2 Greenock 2 6.7 " Narin st Ninians 0 Ardrossan 4 " Scone 1 Kello 1 2.4 over £600 cost for transport only receiving in the region £180 expenses - £420 loss Blairgowrie 0 Troon 3 " Brechin vics 0 Bellshill 2 " 2nd Bridge of Don 6 Irvine Vics 1 over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Culter 4 Craigmark 2 " Hall Russell 2 Lesmahagow 5 " Hermes 3 Beith 1 " Aberdeen east end 5 EK Thistle 0 " 3rd Bridge of Don 1 Auchinleck 1 2.4 over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Hermes 0 Hurlford 8 " Rothies 4 Shotts 3 " Downfield 1 Darly 0 over £600 cost for transport only receiving in the region £180 expenses - £420 loss Dundee violet 1 St Cadocs 0 " This season 24/25 Cruden Bay v Neilston over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Banks of Dee v Muirkirk " Bridge of Don v Glasgow United " Hermes v Cumnock " Dufftown v Troon " Ellon v Glenafton " Forfar v Renfrew over £600 cost for transport only receiving in the region £180 expenses - £420 loss Carnoustie Benburb " Lochee hard v West park " Again i have just give you listings of WOSFL teams who have travelled far and i haven't given you the northern teams who travel south and haven't included any East coast teams who have travelled. So there is a huge loss for many teams who have to travel far in the first 3 rounds and are knocked out. Bellshill didn't lose money on the SJFA Cup early rounds last year - due to sponsors and supporters kindly helping out. The club done very well out of the cup overall, due to the home games being very well attended PLUS the 2k for making the quarter finals. Financially, the SJFA Cup has been very good for the club over the past 2 seasons. If there was a choice required between the SJFA Cup or the South Cup, I think the SJFA Cup would win out. That said, Gartcairn making the decision not to participate, despite it being mandatory is a very poor show from them. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Just now, 0Neils40yarder said: Bellshill didn't lose money on the SJFA Cup early rounds last year - due to sponsors and supporters kindly helping out. The club done very well out of the cup overall, due to the home games being very well attended PLUS the 2k for making the quarter finals. Financially, the SJFA Cup has been very good for the club over the past 2 seasons. If there was a choice required between the SJFA Cup or the South Cup, I think the SJFA Cup would win out. That said, Gartcairn making the decision not to participate, despite it being mandatory is a very poor show from them. I know how much Bellshill have done well due to making the quarter finals both years and guess what this is about travelling away and how it can be a loss. if Bellshill didn't win those ties they would have been a huge loss to them but the quarter loss against Glenafton made good money and the earlier round against Kilbrinie was great for them. But again, they went to Colony Park and Stoneywood twice and paid out at least over £2700 and received just £480 travelling expenses. if they were beaten by Stoneywood then it was a loss of £2,220 and that was that. Thankfully they won and moved on winning until the quarters. But majority don't have that luck. The post is reply to someone and is not about individual teams its also about how it can be a loss and its your luck of the draw. So it ain't all sunshine and rainbows just because someone's team won the cup or did well in it, there's tons who lose out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 It's not a mandatory cup...anyone entering it, knows there is a risk attached to it, in terms of making a loss. Had Bellshill gone out to Stoneywood last season, they still wouldn't have made a loss though but I understand the overall point you are making although again, I'd say most clubs entering the competition know what the risks are. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: It's not a mandatory cup...anyone entering it, knows there is a risk attached to it, in terms of making a loss. Had Bellshill gone out to Stoneywood last season, they still wouldn't have made a loss though but I understand the overall point you are making although again, I'd say most clubs entering the competition know what the risks are. What are you not getting, we are agreeing with it. Just certain posters come onto the SCC thread saying it doesn't make money and is a loss to all teams but they keep mentioning that the junior cup is a huge money spinning for all teams when here I'm proving, Factually that it is not for at least 1/3 of the majority and will lose a substantial amount of money. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I'd highly doubt that anyone has said that the SJFA Cup is a money spinner for ALL teams...and if they have then they don't know what they're talking about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said: Sitting here reading this with my mid-morning coffee and a certain realisation made me chuckle. In any discussion; be it the SJC, traditional grass grounds, whatever there is always a point when the 'Talbot Card' is played. In fact, we have a new game; Talbot Bingo. Shannon is today's winner. You do realise @Shannon is a Medda fan, don't you? They're using Talbot because they are the most well known example of a Junior club...and they're the best! Also, did you have a biscuit with your coffee? Edited August 19 by jimbaxters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eadie is God Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, leaguereformer said: It is not a licensing criteria though. Nothing to do with commitment to pyramid. Signing up to the pyramid IS part of licensing. The SCC IS an official SFA pyramid cup competition.. Not playing in it is clearly not committing your club to the pyramid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 37 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: You do realise @Shannon is a Medda fan, don't you? They're using Talbot because they are the most well known example of a Junior club...and they're the best! Also, did you have a biscuit with your coffee? Not allowed biscuits, too many carbs apparently. I eat way too much carbs according to my lord and master. Aye, I know Shannon is a Medda man, no it's just in a number of discussions, like grass pitches, accessibie facilities, travelling fans, Talbot is used as the go to example, obviously, because let's be honest they are the best good example to use in any non-league discussion. If you are trying to put out a positive note you will use Talbot instead of a whole host of others. It just made me chuckle when I thought about it when reading Shannon's post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 As a group we need to stop pitching the SJC and SRCC against one another. They are 2 completely different competitions. I shouldn't have to explain the differences. Both have merit, the SJC we all know about its heritage. Instead of the Junioristas trying to undermine the SRCC, work to make this fledgling cup what it should be the Lowland Area's premier cup competition. And for a balanced viewpoint; the Pyramidistas should refrain for trying to demote and destroy the SJC. As Troy Bolton sang; 'we're all in this together'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Has it been confirmed if this tournament is, or has been voluntary to play in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 5 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said: Sitting here reading this with my mid-morning coffee and a certain realisation made me chuckle. In any discussion; be it the SJC, traditional grass grounds, whatever there is always a point when the 'Talbot Card' is played. In fact, we have a new game; Talbot Bingo. Shannon is today's winner. @Parkranger and anyone else. I was not having a go at Shannon he is an excellent contributor to p&b and we've conversed many a time. It was merely an observation about the Talbot Card as I called it that made me chuckle. Can folk no lighten up a bit, and stop being so easily butthurt. Some of the best topics on here is when we are all having a laugh and carry on. I don't think I have ever said anything derogatory about the club Talbot; the fans of Talbot, well that's a completely different loaf of bread entirely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 43 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: Has it been confirmed if this tournament is, or has been voluntary to play in? Where is time will tell, when he's needed. In all honesty what punishment other than financial would impact the Cairn. Yer man would happily accept a lifetime ban from the 'horrendous, absolutely farcical' cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eadie is God Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 35 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said: Where is time will tell, when he's needed. In all honesty what punishment other than financial would impact the Cairn. Yer man would happily accept a lifetime ban from the 'horrendous, absolutely farcical' cup. The good folk at Ardeer were delighted with their takings from the cup tie on Saturday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Wilson Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, jimbaxters said: Has it been confirmed if this tournament is, or has been voluntary to play in? Not mandatory any longer for the WOSFL clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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